My kitchen is deteriorating!!
I've had Omega cabinets (omegacab.com) for 4 years. The warranty reps are blaming me for the damage.
I don't know what to do! Any ideas?
I don't know what to do! Any ideas?
Ideabook: Omega Cabinets. · See Ideabook
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EDIT: Can you see this link?
www.houzz.com/ideabooks/4853668/thumbs/Omega-Signature-Cabinets
I will be truthful here. Mostly i am seeing wear and tear dings from 4 years of use. But i would guess the material for the cabinet is not solid wood. Its chipboard/wood pulp, with spray paint. So its not very good with water exposure and not durable.
If you want a solution, get real wood cabinets to last a lifetime....or even plywood cabinet for half a lifetime.
I read the "limited lifetime" Omega warranty which is on line. I suggest you elevate your complaint up past your local sales office to the national manufacturer. Include the link to the photos on this website. If the local sales representative measured the door which was replaced with one too short, that indicates they are not giving you their best attention.
If Omega fixes the problems to your satisfaction, it would be fair to post an update then. Most large companies have service departments designed to resolve problems promptly and fairly.
I guess both refinishing and warranty help. I just want a nice kitchen. You think the peeling is wear and tear?
I bought maple, I got MDF. I didn't buy MDF. They bait and switched me. My receipt says Maple. My packing slip says maple. I didn't buy paint sprayed on sawdust. That's just what I got.
"But Le Java, Omega's website claims their cabinets ARE solid wood."
Exacxtly! The warranty rep says it's not bait and switch because the catalog says MDF. Well everything I read says "maple." But I guess I have to sue them to win that argument.
I think I bought signature but because some is custom, some is dynasty. This was the first room I ever redec
We signed a disclaimer that the paint might break along seems where stiles and rails met. It did do that, but we didn't expect it to expose the "wood." Once the paint chips away and exposes the wood the cabinets disintegrate.
Also there's nothing in the care instructions about making sure water never sits on them. The majority of the damage on the worst of it I'm guessing is from the sink splashing during dish washing. Nothing that I haven't done in 15 other kitchens I've lived in. Sometimes you get water on teh sill, sometimes that water drops to the cabinets underneath. I've always been a bit of a mess cleaning dishes (if you get your belly wet washing dishes, the joke goes, you're going to marry a drunk). I've never had problems with cabinets deteriorating or husbands going to the sauce.
The warranty rep said I used the soft side of the sponge, I never should have done that.
I say, who builds a kitchen that can't handle a sponge?
I've lived in lots of houses, I've always cleaned kitchens the same way. I bought white cabinets so I'd know if there was dirt on them, then I could clean that right away. My 25 year old contractor oak held up fine in the exact same kitchen as these.
These started to deteriorate the day we got them. We only found out because when we went to touch up the issues we started to see after a few months, we found that the installers had already used up the touchup kit.
Now, it is true that some of the tiny chips on the edges are probably normal wear and tear (and could be touched up with matching paint). But the big chips and bubbles do not look like wear and tear, and certainly not normal. If this is what they think their cabinets are supposed to look like after four years of wear and tear, then they are selling an appallingly inferior product.
"I can see why the owner is upset. " -- Thank you!!
The normal wear and tear is in fact a huge problem. Apparently the seal on these cabinets is that white paint. The paint is so thin at the corners that "normal" wear and tear is 100% destructive. Once the "wood" is exposed the cabinets will self destruct at the thought of nearby water.
I bought maple. They delivered MDF. I believed I had maple until about 3 weeks ago.
What happened was, Omega sent replacements for some of the inital problem areas. When my contractor replaced out the first few doors, he told me that I had sawdust cabinets. I said, "No, they're maple."
I believed that well into the process. Finally he put a screw in one to show me the garbage that came out. He explained that the reason these were deteriorating was because my $24,000 cabinets were worth about $3,000, they just were really low quality (I bought these at Direct Buy, my actual price as $10,000).
The kitchen is in New Hampshire. My upstairs bathroom is the only room in the house that ever gets humid. I have Lowes Kraftmaid in there and they're BEAUTIFUL. I so wish I had a Kraftmaid kitchen.
I didn't cook that much until literally about 3 months ago when I went on a food program that required I do more cooking. These deteriorated when the majority of the time we made coffee in a coffeemaker and dinner in the microwave.
The instructions on maintenance say to use a soft cloth. The soft side of a sponge is a soft cloth, but the warranty rep disagrees.
Who builds kitchens that can't stand up to the soft side of a sponge?
Corporate is willing to replace the problem areas but what am I going to do about the failing base cabinets? I'd have to ruin my granite and spend a ton of money to replace those.
And you know this is just going to happen again.
They have all of the photos and my opinions by email.
If they can fix this issue for me, I'd be happy to post that too. Right now I don't know where to turn. This is obviously a defective product, it's bait and swtich, and they're willing to send me new pieces of the same quality, which doesn't solve the quality issues I'll have in the future or how to replace my base cabinets.
Nothing's been prompt or fair. THey've been telling me it's my fault and they're doing me a favor for replacing the drawers, that's been going on for 4 months.
Good luck.
Have you sent copies of your receipt and the packing slip(s) to the Omega corporate office? Were they from Omega or Direct Buy? There's probably a long specification order form showing details of sizes, construction finish and so on which should have some company logo on it and at least a couple of signatures (buyer, seller, buyer's representative, etc.).
Is it possible that a person at Direct Buy or the contractor's office could have written up your order as "maple solid wood" but transmitted the order to Omega as "MDF"? I'm not saying that's the case, only asking if it is possible for something like that to happen, since I don't know if the order was placed in Omega's showroom or at a Direct Buy location.
"The story grows more complex." -- yes, there's only so much I can write up front, there's a lot to it.
Direct Buy will have nothing to do with it. It's very clear that you are buying from the manufacturer and that they have no obligation to support your purchase.
Supposedly DB is how I got $24k worth of cabinets for $10k. But my contractor says these cabinets are worth about $3k.
There's no mistake. The warrant rep inspected the cabinets and said that I got what I bought, in other words, the "maple" is very clearly "mdf" in the catalog so how could I not have seen that? My answer is that nothing we ever read said MDF, nothing we ever saw said MDF, and the packing sheets say maple.
I do have the specifications to which you refer. I have not send the packing slips to corporate yet. It's something I should do next.
My contractor tells me that those specification sheets are my receipt. So it doesn't matter what the catalogue says.
I am talking with corporate via the warranty rep. It's not easy to get corporate to talk to me directly.
In my life I've sued a garage that went joy riding in my car; a client who got yelled at by the customer and so didn't want to pay me; and the town I live in for not repairing a missing stop sign when they knew the sign was missing (and caused me a nasty car crash).
I have never lost.
On the other hand, it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to go to court. It's not fun, it involves putting up with a lot of waisted time and negative energy.
Suing someone is like going to war. You have to be prepared for days when you wish you hadn't gotten yourself into it.
I can sue them and I can win. I have no doubt about that. I have to weigh that against the time and money I'd spend.
What I want is for Omega to do the right thing, the problem is, I don't know what that is.
Return my money? I'll have to re-do the kitchen for $10k including new cabinets, granite and labor.
And the chance of them doing that without losing a lawsuit? Not great.
If these were real maple I could have them refinished/refaced/? not sure of the right word here. I'm told these cannot be sanded down because -- quote -- they're kinda made of crap -- unquote.
I asked the warranty rep if Omega had any cabinets that didn't disintegrate when threatened with a gentle cleaning from a soft sponge. He said they didn't have any products I'd be happy with. He also said he'd never put these cabinets in his house. My contractor's jaw hit the floor when he said that. The rep said that he has a St. Bernard, a frog, 2 sons and a wife, and that painted cabinets were not appropriate for his lifestyle. This makes next to no sense to me. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs, I'm pretty sure that they had nothing to do with the problems in my cabinets.
1. Consumers should have nothing to do with Direct Buy
2. Omega Cabinetry should be avoided because of their inferior product, false "warranty", bait and switch interpretation of what "maple" means, and appalling customer service.
3. No one should ever buy MDF cabinetry for a kitchen.
I hope many people read this post, and I'm very glad you exposed this situation for others to learn from (and hopefully for you to get the cabinets you ordered).
This is NOT good publicity for Omega or Direct Buy, and I hope they realize it.
Agreed about photocopies - I have scanned in all of the packing slips so I have digital copies of everything.
Getting played - ABSOLUTELY! It's like talking to crazy people. They're so DELUSIONAL.
The warranty rep appeared to really believe the utter crap he was spewing about my sponge being the problem, and my hand going in and out of the tilt out causing the deterioration on the base cabinet.
Do warranty reps get paid based on how well they make the problem go away? He works for a company that Omega contracts out to (Eastern Region Associates). He doesn't work directly for Omega. I got the impression that he would get rewarded if he could convince me that the issues were my fault.
Thank you so much. I do appreciate your support.
Direct Buy has worked for some people. I would never do it again. We joined in 2008, before we found other ways to get good prices on cabinets. And also before the deepness of the recession made bargaining a no-brainer. Home Depot was selling garbage for 3x the value. Now they sell pretty nice stuff at reasonable prices.
At that point it was retail vs. Direct Buy, so we took a chance. I wouldn't do it again though. I always had a creepy feeling that I was wading in slime. Lots of people hate them. I don't hate them.
Omega is definitely selling an inferior product. The bait and switch really is a "so sue us" situation. Apparently it's very hard to save the granite once it's installed, so even if they replaced the base cabinets (which I think they would), it would cost me a fortune to install them. I'd have to replace the granite and pay for the labor.
Omega doesn't realize yet who they're screwing with. I think a lot of people would give up.
I am wondering if anyone has any technical advice about how to repair the situation? Let's say I did get replacement pieces. How would I fix the chipping on the base cabinet under the sink? And how can I seal the corners where the paint is rubbed off?
thank you in advance.
When you see what looks like a quality Omega cabinet installation, you can't see what they're hiding. Everything says "wood" but where it counts -- where it can be repaired -- it's MDF, which cannot be repaired. Once it goes it's gone.
http://www.rekitchen.com/cabinets/reviews/omega/
http://www.kitchencabinetsreviews.com/reviews/42-kitchen-cabinets/75-omega-cabinetry.html
The second shows the Omega cabinets after 4 years.
I really hope to figure out a way to make this nice again. I'm just not a technical person, I don't know how kitchens would get repaired. I just want them fixed and sealed, and I don't know how to do that.
I am not familiar withomega cabinets, but from where i am looking, ask them to check your cabinet frames too. Dont get tricked into having solid wood for the doors only. Good luck and love to see that you get a full replacement.
Or spend more and get pine, oak or other solid wood.
MDF is a useful product for cabinetry and is one way to help make cabinetry affordable for the middle class. It is a far better product than "furniture board" (aka particle board) or melamine that is being used by some VERY high end cabinet manufacturers and sold for $30k+. It is more stable and will hold up longer. In a painted situation it paints very smoothly and can provide a very good look for a fraction of the cost. We have installed mdf painted cabinets in situations where a customer was on a budget and they have held up well - in kitchens!
The issue here seems to be the paint not holding up so something went wrong in the painting of these cabinets. If I am reading through here correctly, the boxes are maple and the issue is not with the box construction. It appears the doors and drawer fronts are mdf. I don't see why the kitchen can't be repainted - I would ask a cabinet maker if they could paint them and if they were comfortable that it would look very good after doing so. Get a legitimate quote for painting and I would then expect Omega to pay for it. The door that was an incorrect size should be replaced by Omega as well as any other doors/drawers that are damaged other than paint issues.
Rather than assuming that mdf is a bad product, I would hope that people would conclude that something went wrong in this particular case and for whatever reason, the manufacturer is choosing not to stand behind their product. As the old saying goes, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
"Yeah. If you got ripped off..." Thank you for the validation. After talking to their delusional reps it really helps to be back in reality.
"...talk to their manager and ask for a survey of cabinet. " -- OK what does this mean?
"...bubbling of the paint, probably meant bad preparation prior to painting and not drying adequately." -- that's one of the theories here, too. But then you look at the fact that one of the replacement drawerfronts came fresh from the factory already worn and torn down to the underlying surface material. If the painted seal doesn't hold up on the way from the factory to my house, what chance do I have of Omega Cabinets giving me replacement parts that aren't going to self-destruct again?
"... love to see that you get a full replacement..." - it would only be worth it if:
(a) the material is superior to the garbage they sold me
(b) the base cabinets are replaced
(c) the GRANITE IS REPLACED
(d) they pay for labor.
The Omega Cabinets warranty is worthless if they're going to to send me failing parts that I can't afford to install because demolishing my kitchen will ruin a $4,000 piece of granite.
Thanks so much for your support. I am very grateful.
"Also, if you want to repair it using an external source, use plywood with laminate finish or spray finish if on a really tight budget. Lastly you can also get a spray of "clearcoat" or anti scratch. You cannot refinish mdf."
Could you please point me to some resource regarding these processes?
I have no idea where to start. I have a general contractor who tells me the cabinets can't be repaired.
So I really need help understanding what you're suggesting.
Thank you so much.
From a technical perspective, what do you think my options are? Can these cabinets be repaired?
I really know nothing about paint and furniture. My contractor says they can't be repaired. I'd like to understand if refacing/resurfacing apply here. Does anyone know?
Regarding MDF - I think your point is well-taken. I would only add that the reason MDF is a problem here is that it makes the paint chips impossible (I think?) to repair. My contractor says if these were maple cabinets he could repair them. But because of the OMEGA BAIT AND SWITCH to MDF, they're junk and I need to throw them away.
Water wears away mountains. This is not to say a splash of water from your sink will cause damage but standing water left to it's own devices will cause damage over time. I see from your pictures the water damage on the applied molding on your sink doors took a beating from water being allowed to sit on the finish. Painted kitchens are not meant to be hosed down like a commercial restaurant stainless steel kitchen. You must wipe up water splashes with a soft clean cloth or expect to see your finish swell and crack as you see on your finish.
Wood stained cabinets and painted wood require more care. They are not 100% mtc. free. Let's talk about your cabinet construction and deconstruct the scene of the crime. Painted cabinet doors are maple frames with a center MDF panel for stability. Your door frames are cope and stick and yes, hair line cracks will develop over time and more noticeable on paint. Mitered doors would have shown more hairline cracks and even more so on paint. From the photos it appears you don't have hair line crack issues, you have water damage issues based on the dime size bubbles of paint lifting. That damage is from water.
Modern manufacturing standard verses old manufacturing standards: Paint formulas today are supposedly more "earth friendly" as opposed to the oil based lead paint of yesteryear. Could this be a factor in longevity? Possibly. Coupled with the hard edge door profile, this was a disaster in the making. No matter how many replacements they send you for doors and drawers, it's that hard edge that will see the wear and tear the most as you have discovered even from opening the replacement from the packaging.
When I sold Omega/Dynasty cabinets, the painted finishes were beautiful and I did not experience warranty issues you are having. Most of all my painted kitchens had an ogee rounded edge or a pencil edge. The few warranty issues we, had, they took care of them without question. I think you have legitimate warranty issues but I also believe you have water damage issues caused by excessive standing water near your sink area.
Tilt out sponge trays are a terrible idea. You should have knobs or pulls and never grab your drawer fronts with your fingers. You have to be "Jeff Lewis OCD style" about keeping the tilt out trays dry or accept the eventual failure of a tilt out tray. The hinges rust over time moisture. Eventually you will have a tilt out front that doesn't close evenly. The moisture from a sponge will create a little steam room inside your cabinet causing more damage to the doors and drawer fronts. I do think it is the responsibility of the designer to advise clients about details such as this.
Water and wood don't mix. Doesn't matter of it's solid wood, wood veneer, painted wood, plywood frames or engineered wood frames. Plywood swells and splits, particle board gets spongy and flakes. We are accustomed to using coasters on coffee tables and we use trivets on our dining room tables and breakfronts to prevent the "halo" affect that heat and moisture on wood creates. Wood and paint swells when a damp rag is left on it. Leave a damp sponge on your dining room table and watch the result. So why would you think that your painted maple doors and drawers are impervious to water any different than any fine furniture in your home?
So what happens now? I see a "Mexican standoff" between you and the manufacturer and that's a shame. You're unhappy and feeling duped. The manufacturer should stop selling that door on paint and stop doing business with Direct Buy, the true bandit in this matter who is as you say completely "worthless" in assisting you in resolution. How can any business take your money and not be responsible? They are modern day pirates! Buyer beware you're on your own when you buy from Direct Buy. If you bought from me, you would have paid no more than what you paid for the Direct Buy extortion fee and the cost of the cabinets and you would have received better service, been better informed about your selections and you wouldn't have a contractor telling you your cabinets are crap leaving you in the lurch and asking for advice on Houzz while you publicly criticize Omega Cabinets.
Thank you SO much for your thoughtful and detailed reply. Your perspective is invaluable.
I was not educated by the person who sold me cabinets. On the other hand, I did speak to many cabinet retailers, none of whom said, "So, do you like to keep your cabinets clean? Because if you do, you don't want painted cabinets." It's not like I didn't shop retail, and it's not like I wouldn't have purchased retail. (more on this in response to your direct buy entry.)
I'm not arguing that the cabinets can't handle water. I'm wondering why a manufacturer would even sell a kitchen cabinet that can't handle water. I have grease splatters, peanut butter on door handles, newspaper thumbprints on drawer fronts... Plus, in every kitchen I've ever lived in (see picture of oak kitchen that preceded this one), my habits were exactly the same. Water would spill. Water might not get lovingly wiped with a baby cloth. I don't think it's reasonable to sell a product like this in the first place.
I'm glad for you that Omega handled the warranty issues in a timely manner. I feel like I've been in the Twilight Zone with the warranty people. I've been told many times that they're looking at the case but nothing happens. I've been told I should have known not to use a sponge in a kitchen (that's as crazy-making a remark as any). I've been told that paint chips, I should have known better than to buy a kitchen cabinet that must be dried with a blow dryer after each cleanup. It's been a frustrating Twilight Zone experience full of delusional statements made by people who are obviously working to avoid fulfilling any warranty complaints.
I'm not disputing that water is a force of nature. I'm questioning why anyone would build a cabint that abhors water but it made to use in a KTICHEN. You know, faucets, sponges, mops, steam, boiling water, spills, cleansing product used outside of the cabinets can all get on the cabinets.
Re - stainless steal and thermofoil. I have to disagree with you here. I've lived in 15 kitchens, and none of them ever behaved like this. Please see the hideous oak kitchen I replaced. Those cabinets were 25 years old. They received the same cleaning regimen I'd always used. They were not thermofoil or stainless steel. Just unattractive oak laminate. Water did not bore through them like an acid.
MDF might or might not be preferable. My paperwork and receipts say maple, but I got MDF. The problem is the bait and switch, not necessarily the MDF. After the bait and switch, the issue is that I would be able to refinish maple had I gotten what my receipt says I got. But I can't re-finish these because the area requiring sanding is not real wood.
I don't have 40 year old cabinets that look ok - not sure what you're referring to. I had 25 year old oak laminate cabinets that looked ok. THey were never painted. THey were never anything. They were what they were when they were installed.
My concern with the drawerfront that arrived flawed is that the cabinet is now exposed before I've even installed it, so it will deteriorate that much quicker. I'm saying that the seal on these cabinets is the paint, and the paint is a feeble, weak seal that will fail, sometimes before the product is even installed. These cabinets need to be sealed, but the factory paint does not even do that.
I disagree about the finish issues being my fault. Who sells a product that is inappropriate for its intended environment?
Tilt out sponge trays -- if they're a terrible idea, why does Omega sell them?
"Water and wood don't mix." -- agreed! Yet this is the only kitchen I've ever owned that disintegrated because of water. That says more about the inappropriate nature of this product in any kitchen.
"So why would you think that your painted maple doors and drawers are impervious to water any different than any fine furniture in your home?" -- It didn't even occur to me to ask if it was painted or not. I was completely ignorant of cabinet construction until this whole mess started. I didn't expect painted wood to hold up. I expected a product intended for a kitchen to be appropriately built for a kitchen.
"I would leave any touch ups to the professional." -- how do I find an appropriate professional? I really don't know what to search for. "Reputable cabinet dealers" as Deborah would have me call -- they sell cabinets, they don't paint them. Maybe it's because I'm in New Hampshire, but I don't know of anyone who can fix these cabinets.
It's bait and switch because my receipts say maple and I didn't get maple. Period.
" If you bought from me, you would have paid no more than what you paid for the Direct Buy extortion fee and the cost of the cabinets and you would have received better service, been better informed about your selections and you wouldn't have a contractor telling you your cabinets are crap leaving you in the lurch and asking for advice on Houzz while you publicly criticize Omega Cabinets."
Yes, lesson learned.
Thank you for your very helpful reply.
regarding Direct Buy.
If trends start in California and New York, they end in New Hampshire. The retail cabinets I could find for sale during my outings were not that attractive to me. They were unnecessarily ornate. I could find NO modern designs.
(I found two kitchens in New Jersey that I would have purchased. The first was too modern for my husband's taste. The second never followed up with me and it being a long distance situation, I didn't want to take the chance on failure to follow through. Both were from retailers local to the area (Scotch Plains and Bound Brook)).
I finally found something I could live with at Dream Kitchens in Nashua (NH). The cabinets were quotd to me at $42,000.
For all of the retailers I spoke to, none pointed out to me that I wouldn't quality for a painted wood kitchen because I like to keep the cabinets clean. It's not like this wouldn't have happened had I bought through a retailer.
That's the short of how we ended up at direct buy.
I'm not proud of it. Never was. If I did go into a local store I would not let a salesperson help me because it would have been disingenuous. I felt so guilty about the issue that I let a local stone store rip me off for $72 worth of granite cleaner (worth about $20 anywhere else) . I knew I wasn't buying from them but was asking advice. I felt so badly I let them screw me on the insane price of their products just to make up for using their time.
I don't doubt that most people are less concerned about their local business' success. Anyone who agrees that direct buy is evil should probably re-consider shopping through Amazon. Best Buy is just Amazon's showroom anymore.
Thanks again for adding your thoughts.
Does anyone know what cabinet finishes Omega sells that wouldhold up the best given that I like to keep my cabinets clean, and that water sometimes spills on them?
Would it be the stains and opaques? "Stains and Opaques
Our exclusive Omega Armor finishes combine the best of fine furniture and easy care. We achieve the richness of a fine furniture finish by sanding and staining each piece by hand. Oven-cured to catalyze the top coat, our finishes enhance the wood grain and protect the surface. Omega Armor finishes wipe clean with a damp cloth and require no special care. Click on a stain for a closer look."
I'm trying to understand the argument about water and wood. My house is painted wood. My window sill above the sink is painted wood. That paint appears to be sealing the wood so that the wood is protected from the effects of water.
Shouldn't the cabinet paint be a seal?
I just wish that the factory had said "we won't sell you that paint on that wood (non-wood really) because it will fail."
I didn't ask how they put paint on my car, either, I just assumed they wouldn't put paint on that would chip off in the rain and snow, i.e., the normal environment for a car.
When I bought the cabinets, I didn't have a concept of paint vs. thermofoil vs. stain. I understood wood vs. non-wood, but that didn't do me any good.
One of the MDF shelves is bowing. My contractor says that real maple wouldn't behave this way. I bought real maple but the warranty rep said the bowing was my fault because the shelf has a weight limit.
There are crackers on that shelf.
I've lived in many houses. I've cleaned friends' and relatives' kitchens. My habits have always been the same. Nothing ever fell apart under me.
It seems like the paint just isn't making a seal -- once the water gets under it, it's a failure. I guess I'm saying I think the paint on my cabinets should have made a better seal.
Yesterday I put water in the plant on the window sill. The water fell right through onto the sill. It sat there for a few mintues because I didn't see it right away. I took a *used* paper towel and wiped off the water. The paint was fine, the wood was safely inside and dry.
Shouldn't I expect pait to seal the wood?
Pics of the old kitchen attached
oops wrong pic I can't delete it
Omega Cabinetry is hand-crafted from the finest select hardwoods. Due to the nature of real wood and the finish
process used to protect it, care must be taken to ensure their durability for a lifetime. Our fine furniture grade finish is
very durable and moisture resistant, but it is not moisture-proof. Use the following guidelines to assist you in maintaining
the beauty of your Semi-Custom cabinetry manufactured by Omega Cabinetry:
· When the installation is complete, vacuum and wipe down all interiors and exteriors with a dampened cloth to remove
all dust. Pay particular attention to the drawer glides. Dust and wood particles should not be allowed to remain on the
drawer glides.
· The fine furniture finish of your cabinetry is designed to withstand daily use. All wood surfaces may be cleaned with
a dampened cloth and clear water. For a difficult situation, use a dampened cloth with mild soapsuds (not detergent).
Orange cleaner, sold in our accessories section, is our recommended cleaning solution. Please note that all
orange cleaning products are not equal. Do not use harsh chemicals or ammonia base products as they may cause
discoloration of the finish.
· It is important to wipe up spills from your cabinetry as they occur. Give special attention to product around the sink
and dishwasher. Avoid draping damp or wet dish towels over the door of the sink base cabinet. Prolonged exposure
to spills, including: food, oil, grease, water, coffee, tea, food colorings, and/or other liquids may cause permanent discoloration
or damage to the finish. Omega's Lifetime Limited Warranty does not apply in cases where product has
been exposed to the above elements thus resulting in damage to the product.
· The finish applied to your cabinetry does not require or need any special care. However, on stained wood cabinets
(not opaque paints), you may apply a light coat of wood paste wax (IE: Johnson's) by following the manufacturers
instructions.
· Minor scratches, nicks, and dents that occur through normal use can be repaired with a touch up kit.
NOTE: Do not use detergents, bleach, soap pads, steel wool, paper towels, or other harsh abrasive material
on your cabinetry. Please avoid the use of silicone and/or ammonia based cleaning agents. Orange cleaner,
sold in our accessories section, is our recommended cleaning solution.
My instruction said to use a soft cloth and said nothing about making sure the cabinets were kept bone dry.
Laurie - question - have you sold the metro cabinet with paint on maple? I am wondering if it's this specific combination that is the problem, as opposed to say a factory humidity problem the day mine were made.
Since one of the replacement pieces I got was already worn down to the MDF when I unwrapped it, it makes me wonder if this is just a bad combination of materials.
http://www.houzz.com/discussions/185015/How-do-I-remove-items-from-the-feed-on-My-Houzz-
Your observation about the sharp edges -- that's exactly what my contractor said. He also believes that's the weak link in the design.
Omega has officially replied to me that they can't recommend a urethane or refacing method because anything like that would void the warranty.
At this point I'm going to push for them to respond to me tomorrow. I'm sure their offer is going to be a repair crew and replacement of the chipped pieces.
I wouldn't accept that offer though. It's doomed to failure as the product just is not appropriate for a kitchen environment.
I'll try to get them to replace my kitchen with a different product. It's going to involve demolition, re-construction and new granite. The cost of all of that will be substantial so even if I get what I want I'm going to end up spending a lot of money.
But letting them replace a bad product with more bad product is definitely unacceptable.
Frustrating, isn't it? Thanks for your input.
This is what we got, it's the same as on the website. The issues would be whether the soft side of a sponge is a "soft cloth," and that nowhere does it say to dry the cabinets after any exposure to water. I think that's because the paint failed as a seal, any good cabinet would not have behaved the way mind did.
Care and Cleaning of your Dynasty/Omega Cabinetry
Your Dynasty/Omega Cabinetry is hand-crafted from the finest select hardwoods. Due to the nature of real wood and the finish process used to protect it, care must be taken to ensure their durability for a lifetime. Our fine furniture grade finish is very durable and moisture resistant, but is not moisture-proof. Use the following guidelines to assist you in maintaining the beauty of your Dynasty/Omega Cabinetry:
A soft cotton cloth is recommended to wipe any moisture, spills or standing liquid from your cabinetry. While paper products are very good at absorbing spills, they are abrasive when used for cleaning.
To clean your cabinetry use a soft cotton cloth, dampened with water or a mild detergent, i.e. Spic & Span or Ivory. Harsh chemicals or ammonia based products should be avoided as they may cause discoloration of the finish.
Control the Moisture Content
It is a natural characteristic of wood to contract and expand as it regulates its moisture content to your home's humidity level.
To control the expansion and contraction of your cabinetry, you may monitor the amount of moisture with a hygrometer (humidity gauge) in your home.
Maintain the humidity at or above 20% when the temperature is below 20 degrees and over 35% when the temperature is above 20 degrees.
The soft side of the sponge really isn't the same as a soft cloth. A sponge is cellulose and rougher than cloth. As a matter of fact, the care sheet in the spec book says "Do not use detergents, bleach, soap pads, steel wool, paper towels, or other harsh abrasive material on your cabinetry." My interpretation of "soap pads" is the Scotch Brite dual sided yellow sponge/green scrubber. Is the yellow spongy side of the sponge what you have been wiping your cabinet with? Have you always let your cabinets air dry? This would be ok for wood laminate or formica surfaces but not for paint or wood.
I know you point out that the care information does not literally say to dry the cabinets after any exposure to water, but it does say in your literature provided "Our fine furniture grade finish is very durable and moisture resistant, but is not moisture-proof". I guess this is a matter of interpretation. "Not moisture proof" to me means I should probably not leave moisture on my cabinets. Reminds me of the McDonalds Hot Coffee Lawsuit. A twelve-person jury reached its verdict on August 18, 1994. Applying the principles of comparative negligence, the jury found that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
There was no salesperson. I hired a Direct Buy kitchen designer to spec out the cabinets. It was $300. I supposed one might say she has responsibility here but really, I do not think so. At the end of the day, this is a defective product. The designer couldn't have known that it would rub itself to the MDF/Wood just by touching the packing paper. The manufacturer never should have sold this combination of materials.
Not disclosing the drawer fronts are MDF -- their job is to facilitate the sale between the buyer and the manufacturer. There wasn't a salesperson per se. Just the kitchen designer. No, no options were offered.
I don't think a soap pad is a cellulose sponge. When I say "soft side of a sponge," I'm referring to the Scotch Brite two-sided sponges. The warranty rep's argument against the sponge was not the cellulose. His argument was that I would clean the floor with a sponge, then wreck the cabinet with the accumulated grit. I explained that of course I would never use the same sponge on the floor as on the cabinet. In fact I not only rinse my sponges, they also go in the dishwasher and often in the microwave.
But the fact that we're discussing this as a valid hypothesis amazes me. The idea that kitchen cabinets can't handle cellulose, or that the average consumer is aware of this, is ridiculous. People use sponges to wipe off their cabinets. To suggest that anyone should know better without an explicit warning regarding this requirement is unreasonable. People use sponges to clean their cabinets, so acting shocked that I would do that is a disingenuous delusional attack designed to make me feel responsible for the kitchen's disintegration.
But for the record, please Google soap pad -- they're referring to Brillo-type pads. Nowhere were there any instructions not to use a sponge. If there were such instructions, I would have no problem winning a lawsuit that this is a defective product that doesn't belong in a kitchen on the basis of that weakness alone.
Yes, I use the soft side of a Scotch Brite to clean the cabinets. I don't use the scrubber side. I use blue or yellow, I have both. I have not always let the cabinets air dry - if you do that, the sponge can leave a swipe that sits on top of the surface. I use a terry cloth towel to wipe down the wetness. But there are certainly times when I wipe a problem area without following up with a terry cloth.
I have never made it a point to dry every cabinet I wipe down. Using a terry cloth towel became more important with the white cabinets (the Omega Cabinets). The darker cabinets I've owned would not have been post-wiped as often because they wouldn't have shown the swipes. They would have been left wetter, and never disintegrated. None of the cabinets I've ever owned or used have disintegrated except these.
Moisture-proof - I have to figure that some of the issues are due to sponge water, but others are due to splashed water. Yesterday I saw a drop of water on a cabinet I hadn't just cleaned. The water had splashed onto it from when I was cleaning the Ajax out of the sink. I would consider it an unjust and annoying requirement to have to inspect my cabinets for overspray every time I used the sink.
I see your point about McDonald's though I don't really agree with the conclusion. My stipulation is that this combination of materials is defective. These cabinets were not mistreated. They should never have been sold in the first place.
Thanks again for your thoughtful comments.
I have sold many white Omega/Dynasty kitchens in my time and have never had the difficulties that you are experiencing with paint. In hindsight, I do think you would have had minimal issues had you selected a different edge profile and even selected stained wood because it is very forgiving and hides the average wear and tear much better than white. My two cents. Have a good weekend. I will never look at my Scotch Brite pad the same ever again! LOL!
I am thinking that a restaurant style kitchen of all stainless steel might suit your style of kitchen use better than furniture quality cabinetry! :)
you are entitled to your opinion. I feel you've missed a number of details that would allow you to think differently. I've made my case, I stand by it. Feel free to dispense your sympathy elsewhere.
These cabinets are U.G.L.Y. But--they have NOT fallen apart (wish in fact that they would!) I spend no time worrying about whether or not they are bone dry. I do clean them (and in all fairness they are coffee brown so a lot probably doesn't show!) but I have used some interesting cleaners to try and get them to look better--a pitiful try but hey ya never know---and I do use the -spoiler alert! Harsh side of the SPONGE to get crap off of them. I have used the sink for dog baths kid baths crafts projects wild animal baths plant watering cooking paint clean up floor mop bucket dumping---in short ALL of things a REAL kitchen is USED FOR. I have been known to hang the wet dishcloth over the cabinet doors--for the past 23 years. Not everyday but often enough. My cabinet edges are STILL just fine. I don't spend a whole lot of time with a hygrometer either! And I live in Upstate NY--prob not all that different from your NH climate. (And I do mean UPSTATE--nuthin between us and Canada but cows) And I have had two kitchens before this one with wood cabinets that ALSO did not fall apart at the thought of a little soap and water.
I asked my husband --who is a manager at a major Home Improvement Store (I can't say which but it aint Agent Orange!) and he about FELL OVER when I asked him if THEIR products (cabinets) are made to NOT BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND WATER. He was---stunned-- when I gave him the story here. And I thought he was going to die laughing when I read him the quote about NOT USING PAPER TOWELS. (He used to MAKE paper towels!) Now he deals with this sort of product issue all day long. And I know he has some interesting stories to tell. But the fact that you were told that a KITCHEN CABINET CAN'T HANDLE WATER---well that IS hysterical. In the sad way.
If this was MY kitchen issue I would have long ago been in a courtroom. And I am pretty sure from my very limited court experience that any judge would feel the same--that a product made to go and function in a high moisture high humidity and high traffic area such as a KITCHEN should in fact be able to HANDLE that environment. And you shouldn't have to justify your use of what would be considered--in any rational discussion--a NORMAL kitchen cleaning product i.e. a SPONGE. And you shouldn't have to follow along behind yourself with either a diaper or a blow dryer---I laughed out loud when I read that!
A long time ago I bought a set of pipes for a motorcycle. Within a few weeks they began to rust horribly. I took them back to the dealer and the salesperson told me that "This was the price I was going to pay for a better performing pipe. What do you want? Looks or performance?" I said--BOTH. And ever since that has been my husband and my BENCHMARK for any thing we need to buy or fix or maintain.
Looks or performance? I say---you got NEITHER. But--you PAID for BOTH.
AS a former Jersey Girl I am a bit hot tempered with stupid responses and I have to say that your patience with some of the people posting here is remarkable. And I would not have lingered for 4 months over this with the Omega people. A good suggestion was made about contacting the Consumer type people of your local paper or even the local nightly news. Let THEM see what Omega has to say then! And how they "justify" the sly substitution of MDF for Maple. (Which BTW is harvested right here in NY, Vermont and NH--so you KNOW it can handle a little WATER!) Also---does Omega have any of those "Seals of Approval" Like from Good Housekeeping? Also see if they belong to one of the Trade Assoc's in their field.
Document document document. And sue the bastids!
One Jersey Girl to another!
Our experience with the company is similar to yours. We are extremely displeased both with the product and the company representative who came to the house.
Dismissing for a moment all above disclaimers that have been presented, Caroline, do you think that the timing issue (4 years) may have anything to do with our problems? Could there be a constant here? Can we identify the quality control manger at the time, the inspector of the product before cabinets were packaged and shipped?
The bottom line stops with the whose stamp is on the product. It doesn't matter who sold them to you. Those cabinets were at Direct Buy and, I am assuming, Omega shipped them there. Any reputable firm will stand behind its product. Omega expected a check and we expected what we paid for…quality. We didn't get it. Shame.
Just an observation, but why are you receiving all these "your fault" messages? Who are these people and why the strongly worded remarks in defense of Omega?
Thanks for your note. My contact info is in my profile, I would love to speak with you.
What style and finish did you get? And your friend's?
Who was your warranty rep? Vickie K? Tom G?
Offense/Defense: Thank you for the validation. It's a simple but powerful truth that if enough people shout the same lie enough times, people will believe the lie. The study's been done numerous times, it's even a Candid Camera subject.
I maintain and will continue to maintain that any kitchen cabinet that cannot stand up to a sponge is not suitable for a kitchen and is therefore defective. My contractors and lawyer agree with me. All sane people agree with me. I was just over one of Master Brand's sites. That cabinet care instructions excluded the use of sponges. So the descent into obscenely low quality has officially begun.
I do think there's a timing issue here, but it can't be the whole story.
2008 was a bad year for Omega production if all of us have deterioration in cabinets built that year. Several contractors and lay people who have examined the cabinets have suggested that the humidity might have been high the day the my cabinets were made.
But I received warranty pieces that are really just as bad. One arrived worn to the nub before it was ever unpacked. A door front I replaced 2 months ago is already nicked, meaning it will succumb to water damage in a matter of weeks.
Supposedly this is a $24,000 set of cabinets. Low end thermofoil (beautiful, nonetheless) in my bathrooms looks brand new, and I use a sponge on them.
If you have painted cabinets, we have a common denominator. Tom G. said that a customer must be qualified for these cabinets. He said he has a dog, 2 cats, a frog, 2 sons and a wife, and that these cabinets would be inappropriate for his lifestyle. He would not have them in his kitchen. He put this in writing.
The warranty rep. would not put these cabinets in his kitchen. Painted wood is not appropriate for all buyers. It is too fragile to stand up to some lifestyles. Such as those that include people or animals.
I agree about the bottom line. I feel badly for kitchen designers who sell Omega Cabinetry. Laurie for instance has been so helpful and I'm so grateful for her thoughts. How unfortunate for all of the Omega Cabinet showrooms that Omega and Master Brand will not stand behind their product.
Who are these people who are blaming the Omega Cabinet (omegacab.com) product failure on me?
Obviously they have a vested interest. Maybe some own kitchen stores. And I'd like to send a shout out to April Heid at Master Brand (masterbrand.com). I didn't know you had a Siamese cat. Or perhaps you're just babysitting for a friend?
Vested interest -- that leads us back to Omega Cabinets management. Everything flows from the head. If management stands behind the product, the people who work for management offer a proper resolution to the defective product problem. If management does not stand behind the product, employees stonewall, berate, pressure and attack the product buyers.
Perhaps Greg Stoner took over as president around the time you and I bought our cabinets.
We will find out tomorrow. If Master Brands offers anything less than a proper resolution -- which I've outlined to them in detail -- I will have no choice but to use my Google reputation management skills to make sure every cabinet buyer is warned about the fraud and deception that Omega Cabinets has become.
If I get a reasonable offer, I will post that as well.
That is one of my points exactly. My 1987 contractor-grade wood/sawdust laminated cabinets didn't warp, fold, peel or disintegrate. Blaming the homeowner for this kitchen's disintegration is deceptive and irrational. It will never stand in court. They know that. They're just trying to nip my complaint in the bud.
Tom Gelinas -- Eastern Regional Brands, and MasterBrand's warranty representative -- said that my kitchen was inappropriate for both his lifestyle and mine, because we both have animals and people in our homes. He has two children, two cats, a frog, a St. Bernard and a wife. I have a husband, two cats and two dogs. He said that I was not "properly qualified" for these Omega kitchen cabinets because of my "lifestyle."
No one has even hinted my cat might be the cause of these cabinet issues. His statement is both an admission that the cabinets are weak and a distraction from that fact.
The previous representative (his employee) Vickie Keating said, "What do you expect, they're painted." My house is painted. The sky frequently rains on my house. Yet my house paint stays on like a seal, protecting the wood from the elements.
My infamously "mistreated" window sill is painted. I spilled water on it. (Haters never spill water in their kitchens, hence their contempt of those of us more human.) I wiped up the water and the sill was no different than before the spill, because the paint sealed in the sill's wood, protecting it from the water.
Ouch! Coffee brown! Yeah, that's pretty ugly. And yet after 35 years, the paper towels, sponges, -- both cellulose and scrub -- have managed not to chip the surface, exposing the underbelly to water.
Re: edges - apparently $24,000 cabinets can't handle *things* being placed on them. The edges deteriorate if they're touched. In fact the edges come pre-deterioriated.
Upstate NY and NH are very similar. We used to have a house near Alexandria Bay. The cabinets in that house were 75 years old -- painted -- and never chipped.
"KITCHEN CABINET CAN'T HANDLE WATER ... or paper towels." -- Please thank your husband for the validation. My Omega Cabinets are falling apart because they are poorly made.
Re: going to court - believe me, that is still on the table.
Following behind the soft cloth with a diaper -- ha! Omega Cabinets - if you miss having infants, you can baby ours. Because if you don't baby these cabinets, they will die an ugly, ugly death.
Regarding my patience with the haters -- patience is easy if you walk softly and carry a big stick. The truth will set you free, especially when you're really good at making sure everyone sees the truth.
Hey Jersey! give me a shout sometime, we can compare home town stories. Thanks for the suggestions and affirmations.
btw, it turns out I'm not the only one, if you know what I mean.
thank you!
" The only qualification I can see them agreeing to is that the cook be DEAD before installation!"
Ha! Yes. Omega Cabinets - you can only have them if you don't use them.
There may have been some quality problems here (don't yell at me, I honestly can't tell), but the first failure was the salesperson's failure to educate the buyer. Changes in materials, cost of materials, environmental regs relating to materials and finishes, have all affected the cabinet business. Painted MDF cabinets fill a huge market segment - people with design-heavy, lightly-used kitchens. Believe it or not, that's a huge segment of the market, very well served by these cabinets, very well served by the price point obtained by using MDF. Those owners, and there are tens of millions of them, WILL wipe up every drop of water as it falls. But these cabinets are inappropriate for people who can't or won't treat their kitchen cabinets like an antique. Professional cooks understand this, which is why their home kitchens look like restaurant kitchens, with stainless steel everywhere.
One of the jobs of the salesperson is to educate the buyer about the product, and when necessary, to say, "I know you like it, but this won't work for you, for the following reasons..." I know one custom (custom in the old-fashioned sense) cabinet maker who won't sell certain cabinet materials and finishes (high gloss, especially) without making a door in that finish and installing it in the old kitchen for a month. At the end of the month, he sits down with the customer and says, "See? Now let's pick a finish that will work for you."
And then the salesperson needs to get the customer to sign a receipt for the finish warnings. It's a bit of a turnoff for the prospective customer.
Of course very few salespeople will talk a customer out of the cabinets that she likes, at the risk of losing the commission.
This highlights one of the differences between working with a small, local shop and working with a large company. The large company must view quality and warrantees as statistical problems. A local company can't work that way. The tradeoff is price. If you don't become one of the statistics, then you'll be happy with the lower-price option from the big company. If you do become one of the statistics, you'll wish you payed more from the smaller company.
Thanks very much for your sympathies. I do appreciate the sentiment.
I won't yell at you. It's one thing to disagree with me about how the cabinets should be treated. It's really ok to disagree with me. (Though I admit I'm testy around the whole "sponge" issue.) It's another to attack my housekeeping habits. We just disagree, and that's OK.
I agree with you that MDF is a viable material in some situations.
My problem is not that "all MDF is bad." My problem is that I bought wood and got MDF; and that the MDF is at least in part responsible for these failures (the shelf bowing under the weight of those heavy, heavy crackers).
Technically, there was no salesperson, only a designer. I explicitly declined the right to recourse through Direct Buy. The designer had no commission to lose in offering me an appropriate material for my kitchen. She got $300 to create the design.
I am still having great difficulty conceptualizing people being willing to treat their kitchens like antiques.
I would have been THRILLED HAPPY OUT OF MY GOURD to by local. We couldn't find a kitchen that I liked, that was from a local kitchen store that was less than $42,000. I found two kitchens in NJ but neither of those panned out.
Is it the paint that they're treating so gingerly or the MDF? From what you wrote it seems to be the MDF. It seems like when I'm blamed for the problems, the argument is, "What do you expect? It's paint."
When did the phenomenon of wiping up every drop of water start? I've never heard of it. My contractors have built hundreds of houses, they never heard of it.
And if that's so important, was were there no instructions (and still are no instructions on the website) warning the user about the restrictions?
Stainless steel is not a requirement for professional cooks. My mother, two aunts and two of my cousins are gourmet cooks. None of them has (or had) stainless steel in their kitchens. Stainless steel cabinets are a VERY new product. Professional cooks use wood cabinets, just like the rest of us.
Thanks very much for your thoughtful insights. I do appreciate your contribution.
Are you really saying that you expected the salesman to educate me? How? When I go to see my kitchen designer tomorrow, with your post in hand, I will ask her directly how Omega instructed her to sell their product to me and, at the same time, advise me as to the products (extreme) limitations.
I know my salesperson/kitchen designer believed she was selling me an excellent product. To hold her accountable for this is beyond ridiculous. Truly, what was her responsibility? Was she to come to my home and judge my housekeeping abilities, my air quality control system, my pet, my husband's method of loading the dishwasher? Am I to share with her that I might be a border line slob? This smacks more of a counseling session than a kitchen design session. Can you imagine the fall out (from Omega) if she refused to sell me their cabinets based on a subjective (and at that point insulting) opinion?
You are a contractor, paid by your customer, to supervise the entire building process. You are, by accepting the job, at least tacitly acknowledging that to the best of your ability will deliver a properly built home. Will you accept responsibility, as you expect of a salesman? Should you educate yourself in products which you install? You do not address your role.
Caroline and I never suspected that Omega was so thoroughly unconvinced of the quality of their product. It would be easy enough for Omega to stick a disclaimer on the box…"use at your own risk".
I was buying ($40,000.00+) cabinets, for heaven's sake, to be installed in a state of the art new home, that is meticulously maintained. What difference does it make what store sold them to us? The Omega trademark is on those cabinets. The buck stops with Omega.
250 year old Bergen County Historic House with about a 150 year old Victorian (early Vicky!) WOOD kitchen with adorable and completely decorative and impractical doo-dads kitchen. The cabinets were regularly---some might say TOO regularly!-PAINTED. Surely with lead based panit due to the age of the house. Kitchen looked fabulous the entire 20 some years my family owned the place and at one point the kitchen was used by a family or 7 for ALL meals. And we were Wild Life Re-hab volunteers so at any time raccoons squirrels rabbits and other wildlife could be found living in or being treated/fed IN the kitchen. Did the cabinets get used? Hell yes. Did they fail? Hell NO/
Moved to another house in the 70's with 1950's era WOOD CABINETS. Four kids two adults many many parties many more squirrels raccoons dogs etc. Kitchen looked as great when we moved out as it did when we moved in.
My father--a professional chef--had a 1950's era WOOD CABINET KITCHEN and never obsessed about the mess and water involved in cooking and clean up. His kitchen looked just FINE.
I bought a house in Upstate with 1940's era wood cabinets. Now I didn't much LIKE the cabinets but you couldn't kill 'em. And that house had an OLDER kitchen from the 1800's that we used as a "mud room" Those cabinets were basically wood PLANKS shaped into cabinet bodies and doors. And THEY had held up just FINE. And they were--shocker--PAINTED. The very concept of paint evolved for TWO reasons--decoration and protection.
By using a painted finish over the wood (or MDF for that matter) the surface of the wood is PROTECTED by the layer of paint. And therefore as long as that layer of paint is CONTINOUS over the wood the wood is NOT exposed to water or food debris. But--once that seal is violated--by sanding lets say in the case of a re-model or by wear erosion form long use---this allows the water to get UNDER the seal and damage the wood fibers.
To me this seems like a no brainer. And to blame the homeowner for DARING to actually USE the kitchen--well that is the height of arrogance. Now we have all read in high end magazines about kitchens installed in places where no one is GOING to cook---that the kitchen is just a show place. Perhaps these people use it to make coffee. Or for their caterer to pack and unpack food that is cooked off-premises. But it seems perfectly clear that this is NOT one of those showplace kitchens. And even if it WAS the people who live there might need to fill a coffee pot with--oh no! the dreaded H2o. For the Keurig ya know. And you can BET that if a drop of water escaped their notice and the cabinet door fell off because of it they would look to the kitchen manufacturer to REPLACE or REPAIR the defect. And I highly doubt that they would sit around and wait for MONTHS as this patient woman has done.
The thing is---one person talking and writing to a blog such as this is one thing. But when we get together with our friends and tell THEM that the Omega Company is NOT REPUTABLE because they refuse to back up their work---and they tell THEIR friends---and so on...ya begin to get the picture. And once upon a time the company could feel "protected" by the fact that this woman was in New Hampshire and she was not going to be able to reach thousands of people with her story. But--those days have passed. Now all she had to do was find a place--or places--to write her story to and lo and behold THOUSANDS of readers have decided to NOT buy from Omega.
In the end the loss of business from people who might have purchased from Omega will be more than the cost of their just doing the RIGHT THING and fixing this kitchen.
Thanks for your support for Caroline. I have just "met" her, but my heart goes out to her. Her cabinets are undoubtedly much worse than mine, but the basis of our problem is that the product is inferior. I don't know why she has received (in some cases, insulting) remarks that she is at fault. I am going to assume these comments are coming from those who have a vested interest in Omega.
So, siamese_yowl, here is the answer I left on gardenweb.com - not for you, per se, but for the people who will buy omegacab.com or masterbrand.com thinking they'll get quality cabinets.
"hollysprings --
You are missing the point, as did siamese_yowl.
The water that fell through to the window sill DID NOT HURT THE WINDOW SILL because the PAINT on the window sill SEALED the wood from harm.
The water that fell on the Omega cabinets DID HURT the cabinets because the PAINT on the cabinets DID NOT SEAL the wood from harm.
Say hi to April and siamese for me."
My opinion that the painted maple on Metro is a defective product stands. I am creating a website about my Omega cabinet problems. I am still seeking other MasterBrand and specifically Omega cabinet customers who believe their cabinets are defective. But I also need to tone down my threats so that I can continue to negotiate with MasterBrand in good faith. So I am removing all but the first three paragraphs of this post.
[original post's 3 paragraphs, the rest is cut]
Yesterday I spoke to a masterbrand.com representative about my kitchen cabinets.
This phone call was the first time during this warranty circus that I felt like I was speaking to at least a somewhat intelligent human being.
MasterBrand did not make the offer that I would accept. We are discussing alternatives, but I'm only 50/50 on them at this point. MasterBrand is investigating details before we continue to discuss.
No, this one fell apart.
You haven't read the entire thread. Almost everything you say is wrong.
Why aren't you mad at Omega for NOT STANDING BEHIND YOUR PRODUCT?
I'm not doing this to hurt YOU.
Thank you for the validation and the words of support.
I'm in touch with MasterBrand. They should be calling me back today to continue the disucssion.
I have plenty of avenues if our negotiation fails. BBB, Attorney General, a website I'm creating to discuss Omega and other MasterBrand cabinet product failures, as well as defective product and consumer liability lawsuits.
I do already have a lawyer whom I trust.
Omega dealers should be livid that Omega corporate and MasterBrand have been so horrible at customer service.
Custom Kitchens of NH thinks I'm throwing Omega under the bus. Like I'm thrilled that I got such a crappy kitchen and I have nothing better to do than to beat upon a poor multi-million dollar corporation.
It's posts like that that make me want to drop the nice guy stuff and just go to court to get this god foresaken kitchen out of my house.
Why would you assume that I would go to all of this trouble if they were treating me the way they treat you?
Two warranty reps came to my house. They blamed my sponge. They said, "What do you expect, it's paint."
Can you answer this: It's not likely that I changed my habits after changing from my 20 year old kitchen to my Omega kitchen. So why, then, did the contractor-grade oak laminate hang in there without disintegrating, and the Omega kitchen did not?
I disregard everyone who could help me understand? What are you talking about? I understand that I believe this is a defective product to put paint on maple on a Metro. The edges are too thin, the paint chips off and the product disintegrates. So what are you talking about?
I know I am not helping you. I never said I was helping you. I said I am not doing this TO you. If you are being hurt by this thread, tell Omega and MasterBrands to quit stalling and come up with an offer. Call April Heid at Customer Affairs, extension 1, tell her you want Caroline Bogart to shut the hell up about the product you sell. Tell them she's a horrible person who is hurting your business. For God's sake, PLEASE do this.
My "one problem" is going to cost me $15000 to fix, so if putting it out there for everyone to see gets me a satisfactory resolution, then you're darn right I'm putting it out there for everyone to see.
Law 101: It's not libel if it's the TRUTH.
Keep attacking me. It feeds my self-righteous indignation. Every time I get blamed for this crappy kitchen falling apart, I put another $2,000 in my "sue them already" jar.
I asked MasterBrands, "How could you have sent me this as a warranty replacement?"
April said, "That should have never left the factory."
I asked, "Well, how do we know whether or not my cabinets should have never left the factory?"
She said, "We don't know. That's a possibility."
I truly feel bad that Caroline's kitchen has deterioated and hope that resolution is forthcoming for everyone involved because yes, this flaming thread hurts everyone from consumers to dealers. There is a level of responsibility all parties need to own up to. Omega is not 100% at fault, nor do I think a customer should fear a splash of water damaging his or her cabinets. As a former cabinet dealer, I do take issue with Masterbrand making the product available through Direct Buys that facilitates the sale but does little to educate the customer on product choices and the consequences of those choices.
Some consumers in this thread have mocked the idea of the design consultation whereby we ask about a customer's cooking habits. The discovery process is an inherent part of the process in ensuring a successful outcome. Not everyone uses their kitchen in the same way. It is irresponsible to treat this very expensive purchase as anything less than personal. For those who mock the design process, you can always buy off the shelf "boxes" at the big Orange and install those.
As a designer, I was never just an order taker. A new kitchen is one of the most expensive home remodel projects and I took my customer's investment seriously. Part of that was taking time to advise customer's on the best product for them. As a result, I have many beautiful Omega Dynasty ktichens and baths that have not disintegrated into sawdust as Caroline describes her kitchen. It wasn't as easy as that working with clients. I have been astonished numerous times when customers would say in all seriousness, "I like wood grain, I just don't want to see any irregular graining". (I would have to go back to my story explaining how a tree grows in the forest and explain why we cannot get "perfection" in graining just like we can't help it when we get freckles or wrinkles on our faces. It was my job to play therapist between husband and wife who could not decide between light or dark, paint or stain and to gently bring up alternate options. For example wood grain laminate is not only uniform in it's "picture grain" of wood but it is also plastic and holds up so much better to a wet sponge than wood stain or paint. When you wipe a wood or painted cabinet down, if the sponge is wet enough and water is allowed to drip into the spaces between the a stile and a rail water will penetrate below the finish. Blisters and flaking in the finish from the water damage will become apparent. Once this happens, it's like pulling a loose thread on a sweater. The unravelling effect of this paint damage is from a small problem allowed to fester. The problem should have been addressed immediately.
What I do not understand here between Omega and Caroline is the stale mate. Clearly this door profile was the wrong choice for a painted finish. They sent out replacement drawer fronts that were damaged from the factory. So is this a bigger problem with an inferior paint finish or is this a problem of paint not adhereing to this sharp edge? Caroline, can we see pictures of the rest of your cabinets? I would like to see if you have failing paint on all your upper cabinets too. How many cabinets have failing paint issues? Thank you.
I posted the full kitchen pics above but these are mostly of the replacements and so not worth showing up close (though already one of them is nicked and bound for disintegration).
I will go back and label the other pics so you can see which issue happened on which piece.
16 pieces were replaced. 8 drawers and 8 doors.
One is under the oven. The flake on the lower left corner is the upper cabinet to the left of the oven, above a counter. The third one is the upper cabinet above the dishwasher.
In your above post you mention yourselves at least 17 times. You have made it all about you and it is not. This is about Caroline's issue with Omega. My ($44,000.00) issue is with Omega. We don't care about your customer in Winchester, although the fact that a young boy was able to break off a handle from an Omega cabinet and his father happens to be an attorney are interesting points for us to consider.
You have called Caroline a slanderer and a blackmailer. You do not know her, nor have you taken the time to go to her house (not that far away from you) to look at the problem before you disrespectfully judged her.
It is easy to deduce that your issue is really with Omega. Is Direct Buy undercutting you? Do you have a problem with the fact Caroline can get Omega there and not have to deal with you? If so, direct your comments to Omega as to why you and Direct Buy both are selling their product. What are you missing here? Who is your "enemy"?
Most importantly, what have you accomplished professionally? I live in Massachusetts. I am in the design business. Do you think that your tone has influenced me in any way? I would never recommend you to a client as it seems your loyalty would never reside with them.
You came into this discussion very late in the day. There are so many ways to make a point. Your way is not professional. I hope everyone reading this post takes a moment to remove themselves from Caroline's dilemma and reads into your comments. You are quite transparent.
P S
I went on your website. You have not had a single endorsement since 2008 !!!! Should I judge you on that fact?
to come to a reasonable solution for you. I do not know what DIrect Buy explains to you, but any painted cabinet that I sell has a paint waiver that must be signed by the consumer in order for them to understand what is to be expected over time. This does not have anything to do with me and I am not making it about me, Judy by the way, my company was just named "Best of the Best" for the 3rd year in a row for our customer service. I hope that you can both come to some resolution to your issues that you are having with Omega, I am sorry that this has happened to you and I hope that Direct Buy will help you out too. Good Luck.
You might have introduced yourself to this community; read thoroughly through the posts. As professionals you might have begun this way (as you just wrote above), "I hope that you can both come to some resolution to your issues that you are having with Omega, I am sorry that this has happened to you and I hope that Direct Buy will help you out too. Good Luck." Then gone on to tell us about who you are, your expertise and your relationship with Omega and why you think Omega will help Caroline. Instead, you used words like you are blackmailing, you are slandering, you have taken no responsibility, inferred that there was some poor housekeeping, on and on ad.nauseum.
Your responses are unjustified and, until YOU can prove otherwise, unmerited. If you are looking for credibility here, call Caroline, get in your car and drive to her home. Take a look for yourself.
I went to your profile and low and behold you suddenly have appeared out of nowhere. Three comments and all directed here ???? Interesting.
Houzz is a forum which addresses a myriad of issues. What is unacceptable is rudeness, name calling and comments having no basis. If you were familiar with Houzz you would know that.
You mentioned cleaning and disinfecting after preparing raw chicken. Is it possible that cleaning products (perhaps bleach based) deteriorated the finish somewhat? I looked at the pictures and it appears that the paint has chipped off, and not just on corners. I am wondering if the problem is not the MDF but the finish that was applied. If MDF is sealed properly then the water shouldn't affect it. The paint would form a barrier. Perhaps they were not primed properly and so the paint is not adhering as it should.
As I said, I am no expert, but I did a lot of research and had no qualms about ordering MDF doors. It is very disheartening to spend the money on a kitchen and then experience the problems you are having. I do hope you are able to get this matter resolved.
Yes that's our hypothesis too. With one addition regarding the MDF --
It's not the MDF per se that is the problem. The problem does, in fact, appear to be the finish. But, had I gotten the maple that I ordered and not the MDF substitute, the interior under the defective paint would not have imploded. Further, maple cabinets can be refinished; MDF cabinets cannot.
I understand the frustration you must be feeling. For you to replace those cabinets it will cost thousands of dollars. I really do hope you can come to a resolution that is acceptable.
Thank you for much for your kind words.
April in Consumer Affairs is off to do two tasks. One is to determine which rounded fronts will go with my cabinets. The other is to talk to the refinisher to see if they're going to warrant the fact that my kitchen will be reasonably impervious to water after they fix, paint and seal.
You can see that there are several places where their "only offer" might be unacceptable. I might not like the rounded fronts. The refinisher might not be able to seal -- and protect -- the cabinets.
I am only 50/50 on their offer. I am considering it in good faith. We shall see if the offer becomes acceptable. Right now, it is not.
Given how Judy and I were treated by the warranty reps, I'm now realizing there might be many more Omega cabinet buyers whose cabinets are falling apart. MasterBrand doesn't know about them because the warranty reps bullied them into not exercising their warranty rights.
That's why I created this website to discuss MasterBrand cabinet problems:
www.masterbrand911.com
I understand that Omega dealers would prefer this thread didn't exist. I would be willing to delete this thread if MasterBrand offered the following:
1. to replace my kitchen, including my granite and the labor costs
2. to fix Judy's kitchen to her satisfaction
3. to admit that this combination -- and perhaps others -- are defective. To do a recall of affected products so that all victims of this defective product are made "whole."
As long as MasterBrand will not admit to this product being defective, I will spread the word in the hopes of educating Omega customers about their rights.
I am in Australia AND not a legal expert, but my gut feeling is that if you accept MDF when you paid for Maple, then they win and you lose.
Also, if you "don't want to start a war", don't start a war.
The comments above apply to your post, too.
God bless free speech.
While at first I was as skeptical as a cop, imaginging this "crazy lady" must be hosing down her kitchen and she's expecting no damage from the havoc constant water abuse cab cause on the finish. I will stick to guns about water damage. However, the pics Caroline submitted show the damage is not isolated to just the sink base and surrounding base cabinets. While the sink base doors look the worse out of all the pics, if it was just the base cabinets then it would be clear this is primarily based on water damage. The pictures show upper cabinets with paint failure. Right there that tells me something else going in on with this finish.
I have seen and heard it all in this business from all sides and will always take the side of reason and logic and truth be told you have to be the squeeky wheel to get a remedy when the facts don't add up. Back in 2009 I did battle against a very high end appliance manufactiurer that changed the design on their microwave drawer. They went from a front venting microwave drawer to a concealed side vent. The front vent made sense because the hot air was directed out. When they changed the design to conceal the vent to the side, hot air was forced to blow directly onto the adjacent cabinet frame and door/drawer creating steam and causing condensation to build up in the cabinet sides. My customer called me over to see the water drops on the floor caused from the condensaton build up on her cabinets. She was livid that she had to wipe up the water on her Omega painted cabinet after using her Microwave. She was right to be upset. I fought the battle with her because no where in the specifications did it indicate we needed yards of space between the microwave and the adjacent cabinet. And frankly, who has space to loose in their kitchen for such a space wasting design? The appliance store wasn't willing to return the microwave without a cost. I recommended the customer order a front venting microwave drawer from a different manufacturer. The customer wasn't willing to alter her suite of highend appliances to accept a different microwave, It was another stale mate with no one wanting to budge. It got ugly and tempers flared. The appliance repair guy accused my customer of overmicroaving her Lean Cuisine meal and not knowing how to use her microwave. The accusations got ridiculous. The manufacturer ultimately took care of this for her. They modified her microwave to prevent the condesnation build up on the side. But it was months till she saw a resoluton. As a side note, the Omega painted finish suprisingly held up during these daily hot bursts of steam. So I know my customers have subjected their painted finishes to abuse before without them crumbling under pressure. Something must have changed in the paint formula after 2009.
Laurie, there is one constant here for us and that is the timing of our orders. You seem to have great things to say about Omega and we just haven't had that experience. I mentioned this idea to Caroline at one point in our convos…what about the inspections? No matter what you buy there is always some manner in which to identify who has given the thumbs up to let the product get to the packing plant. Then someone has to put a stamp of approval on the pieces before they are wrapped and shipped. When the paint is disturbed on my cabs there is no indication that they were primed before the paint went on. Possible that someone skipped a step and not got called on it? There is something so wrong here that there has to be some explanation. Do you think that Omega would keep work orders so that the chain of command might be identified?
The rep who came to my house told me that the cabinets next to my dishwasher were pealing and splitting because of the steam. When I pointed out that my dishwasher doesn't vent out it was suggested then that I open my dishwasher too many times while it is running.
I mean, truly, how do you respond to an absolutely inane remark like that?
ridgebacksaremything…right on, there is no primer.
Is a ridgeback a dog? :>) ?
That's exactly what we're thinking. There is no primer on the "wood" (in my case, bait and switched MDF), so the paint didn't stick.
The cabinets behave as though there's no primer (nicking to the underlying material with no whitewash under the paint). They don't behave as though they were sprayed with water, hammered with steam or abused with Brillo pads.
When the warranty rep. can't find an actual customer abuse of the cabinets, he makes stuff up. But his evidence doesn't fit, you can see it in the pictures.
Did you ever find out if the rep was in fact Tom G?
So exactly what are you supposed to do if you have Omega cabinets AND a dishwasher? Are these two things mutually exlusive?
Wow.
Makes me wonder -- who opens their dishwasher before the cycle is done? Uhmmmmmmmmmmm. No one.
Yes, Rhodesian Ridgebacks are dogs, here is a picture of a perfect one!
1. You ordered Maple cabinets from Direct Buy, and recieved MDF
2. Regardless of what was recieved the finish has not worn well, beyond regular wear and tear.
Make copies of all of the information you have. Reciepts, packing lists etc. Get email addresses for everyone you have spoken with and communicate through email only in the future. Send an email outline to each person you've taled to outlining what you have spoken about and their response that "had" been given. Allow them to respond to either agree or disagree with what you have said. 3 days should be enough time, business days. Emails are legal written communication. If someone should call you, send them an email outline of what was discussed. Make copies of the photos.
Sit down and write a demand letter. State the problem, refer to documentation enclosed, including copies of emails and clearly state what will be an acceptable resolution. Do not discuss this further in a public forum, it will be counter-productive. Do not make mention of this discussion on Houzz.
Look up the President of both Direct Buy and Omega and send the demand letter directly to them at their corporate office, give them at least 10 business days to respond, but state so in the letter. Send the letter in a trackable form, UPS, FedEx, or USPS Priority. Each State has a Consumer Protection Agency, state in the letter that if an acceptable resolution is not met you will turn the case over to the CPA of your state, and each of the states the companies are located in, as well as the better business bureau. Do not use the word law suit, be disappointed, frustrated and upset, do not sound vengeful or sue happy.
If they respond unfavorably, the next step is the CPA. The consumer protection agency information is listed usually on each states website, along with the forms to fill out and directions on what to do. If you should need to file suit, if Omega is not in your state, and depending on what your state has is their Consumer Protection Act (also available online) you may have to sue in Omegas state. Very costly.
Unfortunately, I have been down this road before, but if you send the demand letter to the President, it usually ends there successfully. Good luck and I'm sorry you had this problem.
In any case it is great that they resolved your issue and gives me confidence that if I did ever have a problem that it would be resolved.
To respond to your comment about your old wood cabinets not having a problem with water: The varnish or whatever they use on stained wooden cabinets (that are not painted) is more durable than paint. But even that will wear away or peel the finish with excessive water revealing the natural color of the wood underneath the stained color. This has happened to me under my sink cabinet on my old kitchen.
PS- I got mine in 2008 as well. I don't think mine are all MDF because they do have hairline seams which indicate to me that it is two pieces of wood jointed together. However there is no peeling or flaking or bubbling. So I think just the middle panel is MDF to prevent expansion. (I have the Wyatt Door).
In any case it is great that they resolved your issue and gives me confidence that if I did ever have a problem that it would be resolved.
To respond to your comment about your old wood cabinets not having a problem with water: The varnish or whatever they use on stained wooden cabinets (that are not painted) is more durable than paint. But even that will wear away or peel the finish with excessive water revealing the natural color of the wood underneath the stained color. This has happened to me under my sink cabinet on my old kitchen.
PS- I got mine in 2008 as well. I don't think mine are all MDF because they do have hairline seams which indicate to me that it is two pieces of wood jointed together. However there is no peeling or flaking or bubbling. So I think just the middle panel is MDF to prevent expansion. (I have the Wyatt Door).
I have four young children and am always in a rush so I can honestly say I don't have time to care for the cabinets as much as I would like. So considering this, I am happy with them. I definitely have knicks on the edges of the doors that are used most frequently. And they are slammed and get dirty fingerprints from my kids all the time.
I feel that in general, the quality of cabinets are not made as good as they should be. And there really is no excuse. But I like to compare them to my parents painted pine cabinets that are over 75 years old. They have been painted a number of times and I love the character is lends them. While I realize that painting the cabinets will be an extremely time consuming, I planned on doing this in the future anyway.
My aunt has Rutt cabinets in cherry that are about 25 years old and she recently painted hers wihte. They are supposed to be great cabinets but not everyone can afford them.
The worst part of this experience appears to be : false advertisement - market as maple and shipped as MDF; poor construction and sold as high end products; unacceptable warranty rep's responses; customers are treated as a number. Losing some customers is not important to big retails or big manufactures because they have thousands or millions already. We are just a number to them.
I was seriously considering Omega or Dynasty cabinets but after reading these threads; I need to evaluate all options. I do not want to spend six months to deal with cabinet manufacturer. And then thousands of dollars to fix the kitchen due to cabinet manufacturing issues.
After reading the reviews about Omega and Dynasty, lesson learned - local cabinet makers may be a better way to go. They cannot afford to treat me as a statistic. I have very positive feedback from friends on many local cabinets makers. None is as bad as I have read in the web about Omega and Dynasty. Thank you, thank you for helping us not going to make the same mistake. Good luck in getting your kitchen fixed.
I normally do not post comments in the web. This particular situation really is beyond the norm. Thank you for sharing. We learned a lot from your experience.
I hope that you are a consumer and not an Omega rep. This post is an accurate experience of a substandard product.
Again, I think most furniture or wood manufacturers in general these days are giving us crap. I have worked at Pottery Barn and the amount of money for bedroom furniture was outrageous and is not solid wood. Or at least not good solid wood.
I must have gotten a better Omega cabinet than the person who got thiers from Direct Buy. Because I am very impressed with the condition of mine with 7 years of use by 4 really tough kids and parents who don't have much time to wipe off water each time it may splash. I have had problems with all my Bosch appliances but nothing with my cabinets. Painted cabinets are not going to hold up as well as laquered wood cabinets. But mine are doing pretty good!
It makes no difference where the cabinets were purchased. Omega is Omega.
I spent over $40,000.00 and am recommending, as was the original poster, that anyone considering purchasing Omega to reconsider.
I am not sure you read the entire thread, but the original poster MAY no longer comment on her experience with Omega. It is clear Omega agreed to settle with a clause preventing her from sharing what the agreement was.
That to me is the proof in the pudding.
GO BACK IN THIS THREAD AND LOOK AT HER PHOTOS AND READ, AGAIN, WHAT THE POSTER WENT THROUGH. SHE ASKED FOR HELP/SUGGESTIONS AND SUPPORT...NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF SUBSTANDARD, TO HER, PRODUCT.
What kitchen does not have a dishwasher? Kitchen cabs get dirty and a light swipe from a dry cloth isn't going to do the job. I am surprised she did not criticize your housekeeping. That is one of the tactics.
I was chastised by my rep for installing Omega here on Cape Cod because there is so much moisture in the air. Now, how do you respond to a completely idiotic statement like that? I purchased the cabs 2 miles from my home.
There is a little puzzle like piece on the top of your doors. Soon that will start to separate and then the paint peels from that point.
The original poster pursued Omega and, obviously, won after months of fighting for what was her right as a consumer. I hope everyone reading this stays away from Omega, Good luck.
Are you in New England?
I don't understand how Omega can possibly expect us not to want to clean our cabinets. I don't fry at all. The steam (I have two vents) leaves these funny little spots all over the doors above the stove that are permanent. The cab door next to my dishwasher is falling apart.
Yes, I am going to make another complaint. Caroline, the original poster, is much better at this than I. She wouldn't let up. But, I am going to continue on. I think the best I can hope for is a new door or drawer here or there.
Keep me posted.
It is, all around, an inferior product.
We at MasterBrand have learned of your situation with your Omega cabinetry as posted here on Houzz. I am a Consumer Affairs Specialist with MasterBrand Cabinets, the parent company for Omega. If you could contact me at ConsumerCare@masterbrandcabinets.com with your personal information we will be glad to look into your situation and make sure the proper steps are being taken to resolve your issue. Your satisfaction is very important to us. We look forward to your email response.
We attempted to reach out to you previously but must have had the wrong email address as we did not hear back from you. If you could please contact me at ConsumerCare@masterbrandcabinets.com I will be glad to help you. We regret you are unhappy with your Omega experience and would like the opportunity to assist you directly.
And I even asked for it in writing and they did.Who am I ? I own an construction company . Work for big companies as a project manager for many years. I'm the one that helped my costumer start this tread. I have been following this thread every day from the start.My hands are not tied.Let's reflect back.. ctod .. (( Our rep didn't show for the 9am meeting. Not even a call. )) (( She is going to file a report and get back to us ))
(( Omega would like to take samples of my cabinets )) (( We at MasterBrand have learned of your situation)) Really?? Were have you been throughout this thread? (( We attempted to reach out to you previously but must have had the wrong email address )) SHAME ON YOU!! I just build a new Ikea kitchen for my costumer. There were scratches on two doors. Ikea gave me new doors right away with no questions asked. They were so helpful through out the installation. There were no reps coming out to investigate the scratches. They didn't even care how it happened. Customer satisfaction was number one with them. There was no testing to see the lead from my pencil had created one scratch. Or one was from the blade of a razor knife. They didn't care. They replaced it and said thank you. Customer satisfaction is defined as the number of customers, or percentage of total customers, whose reported experience with a firm, its products, or its services ratings exceeds specified satisfaction goals. So SHAME ON all the reps.
((((They see this issue daily and the reps are well trained with their response.))) I wouldn't say well trained. Car salesmen are well trained. To say the steam from a dishwasher or hot water boiling on your stove. Maybe your hand touched them and the acid from you body oxidized the paint and chipped it? Could be you shouldn't use the kitchen ? Looks like they're insulting your intelligence with one song at a time. But you can't dance. Why ? Because maybe you're just a home owner and not a professional. So they talk to you like a child ?So like that car salesmen at the selling point they make you believe you're getting the best for the buck.Right? Then in a short time you're stuck walking again. See I have been in the trades for a long time. Been following this blog from day one. ((( We attempted to reach out to you ))) OMG REALLY? Could it be you're trying to look like the good guys out here ? Taking samples of the cabinets shows good detective skills or could it be called beating around the bush? OK enough of sad tactics to avoid doing the right thing.
MDF Vs. Plywood Cabinets
MDF is an abbreviation for medium density fiberboard. These boards are also called particle boards because of the way this type of wood product is constructed. When you are selecting wood for cabinet construction, it is important to know the differences between these wood types for quality cabinets. Being unfamiliar with MDF and plywood characteristics may leave you with cabinets that break or crumble.
MDF vs. Plywood Strength
MDF panels are not the desired wood type for cabinet construction, because of the quality of the panels. The fiberboards are more likely to crumble under pressure, meaning a constructed cabinet may crumble or break once you start storing heavier items in it. Plywood sheets are much more reliable when it comes to cabinet building. They provide solid support, although they may not be the most visually appealing choice for cabinets.
Characteristics
MDF boards are created using very small wood chips, shavings and sawdust. The mass is compressed into a board, along with resin to keep the mass together. This means that these boards are more likely to crumble when cut with a saw and when screws and nails are inserted into them. Plywood sheets, on the other hand, are thin wooden sheets that are glued and pressed together. Since plywood is layered sheets, saw cuts are made perpendicular to the layering, which means the strength of the wood is maintained during cutting.
Other Wood Options
Since plywood sheets and MDF boards are not the best choices for cabinet construction, choose solid hardwood boards for visually pleasing cabinets that are higher quality. Hardwood also comes in a large variety of wood types, including beech, oak and mahogany, meaning you have options when choosing the wood for your cabinets.
This is a copy an past from this web site .http://www.ehow.com/info_8790213_mdf-vs-plywood-cabinets.html
I have seen the MDF cabinets fail. On painted MDF cabinets inspect the edges real closely. You will see much less paint there. The paint rolls off the edges and there's a very thin layer . This is were the seal is broken. Once the seal is broken the moisture will find its way into the MDF and it's all over. The chipping starts.I was just on Omega's web site. There's a part that said
"Backed by the most comprehensive warranty in the industry, depth and breadth of their product offering, world class business support team, there's no questions that kitchen and bath solutions from Omega are the best value around." Think I need to go buy some higher boots. You all need to take a page from Ikea and take care of your costumers. They're not dumb as you think.
http://woodworking.about.com/od/typesofwood/p/Woodworking-With-Medium-Density-Fiberboard-Mdf.htm
We at MasterBrand Cabinets, Inc. appreciate your insight and comments regarding the chain of events in this situation and agree with you that we were wrong in the way Mrs. Bogart’s case was initially handled. In the beginning, she did not have the experience that our company expects, but as soon as our corporate office was made aware of what had happened, we did our best to rectify it for her and believe she would concur. We stand firmly behind our product and strive everyday to improve both our processes and service level. We believe we are the best in the industry and encourage anyone who has concerns, including yourself, to please contact us at ConsumerCare@masterbrandcabinets.com.
This is not the first time that we have reached out to Omega to rectify a very costly installation that we made. You send a rep to our home, who, at best is insulting, at worst in an idiot. How can some one who you employ come into a home, with over $40,000.00 of your cabinets installed, and have the nerve to blame me for their deterioration?
I was at a home today where Kraft Maid Cabinets had been installed. My daughter, on a budget, did IKEA and another friend had cabinets shipped from the Amish and then had them painted by the local car restoration shop. All are better than mine.
Omega cabinets are a disgrace. The finish is a joke. I don't know what your level of responsibility is at Omega, but I would think twice before I put my name on your above comment. Caroline Bogart, an Omega customer, "did not have the experience that our company expects." Omega expects the consumer to have experience that meets expectations? Hopefully, you typed this statement incorrectly because it is beyond ridiculous.
And Caroline Bogart would concur? Well, Julie, she can not concur because Omega told her that she could not comment on the settlement.
So, get someone out to my home, for the second time, and let's see if Omega puts its money where....instruct the rep not to say: "well, you live on Cape Cod, near the water; the cabinet door is next to the dishwasher and you must open the door while it is running; you used a sponge to clean the finish ; you should not boil pasta on the stove, on and on ad nauseum.
I will say, and will continue to say, that Omega cabinets are substandard. More importantly, Omega will not stand behind their product and puts you, Julie, in a situation that demeans you. You have not seen my nor Caroline's cabinets, yet you are willing to put your reputation on the line for a paycheck? Shame.
The owner of your company should be responding.
To see a post where YOUR customer writes "Our rep didn't show for the 9am meeting. Not even a call ... The meeting was aggravating with her ... They see this issue daily and the reps are well trained with their response..."
When the economy was good, we built over 125 homes a year. When something went wrong, I would call the district rep. The problem would be fixed right away. WHY? Because we bought in bulk. I assure you no sales rep ever said: "We attempted to reach out to you previously but must have had the wrong email address as we did not hear back from you "
For the individual homeowner, this kitchen is their life's savings. It is their home. The comments in this thread show exactly how MasterBrand's reps treat them.
Well I will gladly help any one of them to make their home a home again.
I am sorry for any confusion or inconvenience this situation has caused you. It sounds like you sent your email directly to Omega and I am at a different location as I am employed by the parent company MasterBrand. Feel free to email me directly at ConsumerCare@masterbrandcabinets.com.
As a manger, I would not ask a customer to contact me. Not after reading all the post in this tread. Reps have gone to her home. Items have been mailed. They even sent a re-finisher. As a manger, I would have followed up to see if the customer was satisfied . There has to be a long paper trail on this case.
You even say you agree that Omega was wrong in the way Mrs. Bogart’s case was initially handled (deja vu). They are also wrong in how they are handling Judy's case. As a manger, and being high on the chain, I would not only follow up, this would be a priority.
I'm sure if your hands are not tied. You could review all the reports. Talk to the reps. Get all her contact information. Even bring some of the events to your next supervisors' meeting. You do have meetings right? There's no accountability here.
Omega pulls in over 9 million a year. They're a big company. I'm sure all the reports have been read. No one cared to follow up with Judy. There are many ways for you to contact her. Contacting her by way of email is a from of "chasing." And, it takes the conversation out of the forums. It takes it behind closed doors. Then no one can put their input out there.
You can't tell me you don't have the reports and information in front of you. You should be able to request all this information. Unless you don't have the pull you are claiming to have.