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Need help for my kitchen!
Nina Giogeyty
November 15, 2012 in Design Dilemma
The strange shape of my floor plan didn't help me. As result my tringle is not right. So my kitchen don't work well for me.
I am open for suggestions of what can i do to fix my kitchen.
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PRO
Custom Home Planning Center
Reverse the doors on the Frig.
Replace the open shelving with a microwave and toaster shelf about 30" above counter height & add a marble counter over a new drawer base. This should solve the problem.
November 15, 2012 at 4:12pm   
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Kim D
can you replace the table with an island that contains your kitchen sink?
November 15, 2012 at 4:25pm     
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PRO
Realtor in PLACERVILLE
an island with a dishwasher! since you would have to plumb anyways go all the way
November 15, 2012 at 5:16pm     
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lionscale
Does the door with the flowered curtain open to the outside or another part of the house? What is before the table...a wall or an opening? The cabinets look new and rather than replace them is it an option to dismantle and reconfigure them?
November 15, 2012 at 5:38pm   
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nevadan
I can't figure out what those odd glass panels are. Very strange. Can't advise unless I know.
November 15, 2012 at 6:26pm   
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victorianbungalowranch
Ditto, I would swap out the table and the sink area if I could.

If so you could change to a classic galley configuration and move the fridge and some of the cabinets to make way for an eating area--maybe even a built-in banquette. with views out onto the patio. I might add a little color to the walls too to bring out the nice cabinetry.

Oh, looks like there is a doorway there. Only room for a bistro set or little pub table perhaps.

Another option is to add a small prep sink near the stove on the left, perhaps by creating a false drawer and blocking part of the cabinet underneath, and leave the other sink for washing dishes and such.

Something like a little kitchen cart might come in handy too to make it work better for you.
November 15, 2012 at 6:34pm   
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Sarah Steere
the most logical solution is to move the sink area opposite the stove and if possible I would put the fridge over there too. Then you could have a little banquette under the window. Of course that means moving plumbing, but I think it would be worth the cost to have a more functional kitchen. Looking forward to your transformation!
November 15, 2012 at 7:28pm     
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Gene Curtis
The design and layout of the kitchen will impact its functionality and efficiency of space. The design of course will depend on the type of meals you want to cook and the kind of appliances you want to put in it so you can always move around with ease. Kitchen appliances and furniture would also be plausible. These appliances and furniture can include - dishwashers, stoves, juicers, mixers, food processors, etch. Furniture such as these ones - http://www.homefurnitureandpatio.com/servlet/Categories?search_keyword=kitchen&keyword=kitchen&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&oem=all would look great and can be positioned in a well-built kitchen.
November 16, 2012 at 3:37am   
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annmarie2
I kind of see a few key questions:
1) how important is the in-kitchen table? Do you have an adjacent space for eating?
2) how possible/expensive would it be to move the plumbing?
3) what's the area enclosed by glass to the right of the sink and how important is it to keep that?
4) where does the door to the left of the sink go?

If doors and glass panels are immovable objects, then moving the sink etc to the wall where the table is makes the most sense, especially if you can eat elsewhere. While it's nice to have an eat-in kitchen, it's more important to have a functional one.

If you can remove the door and/or change the panels, that brings up a whole set of additional questions/suggestions, but you're talking scope creep here!
November 16, 2012 at 7:36am   
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nevadan
What is your budget?
November 16, 2012 at 8:00am   
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Nina Giogeyty
Thanks a lot every one for your coments!!
1) I attach my floor plan so you understand better.
2) Odd glass panels is my kitchen door. Is an old apartment which i am trying to remodel.
3)Next to the sink is a small door which lead to a small pastry and to patio.(this door didn't let my to have a "L" kitchen.
4)flowered curtain open to the outside.
5)On the right of the table is a radiator ,if i am using the right word is for heeting.So i don't know about the Frig there.
6)For water i will ask my plamer.
7)
November 16, 2012 at 9:48am   
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joaniek
Do you need the kitchen door (glass panels?) what is the room on the other side of the glass panels? That's what I don't get. Can you remove the glass wall?
November 16, 2012 at 9:57am   
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Nina Giogeyty
What if i move to the table the stove?
November 16, 2012 at 10:06am   
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Kim D
you could move the stove to the location of the table, but unless you also move the sink I don't think it will make much difference. Are you saying you would move the stove to the table location and then move the sink to the stove location?
November 16, 2012 at 10:18am   
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Nina Giogeyty
Yes i need a door there the other room is the entry.
November 16, 2012 at 10:34am   
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Nina Giogeyty
Yes rivers300 . Move the stove to the table location and then move the sink to the stove location because is easier to move pluming to the stove location. An other thinking is what if i move the sink next to the stove by removing the tall cabinetry to the table location??
Will this work???
November 16, 2012 at 10:45am   
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Kim D
Nina, we are finally getting somewhere!!! I don't like the idea of moving the tall cabinet and placing the sink on the end. It doesn't give you the triangle that is recommended in kitchens. If you move the stove and sink as we discussed that would be ideal. you could actually cover that wall in cabinets and get more storage space or you could do open shelves over the new stove location.
November 16, 2012 at 11:05am   
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joaniek
Can you put solid instead of glass doors and then you could use that end of the kitchen to do a wrap around counter?
November 16, 2012 at 11:06am   
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victorianbungalowranch
Moving the cooktop will make it so you can't vent outside. You have a very large hood--if it doesn't vent outside, you could move it, but if it does, you will lose a lot of function, and it will be more expensive. You might be better off putting the sink where the table is and extending a counter over the radiator with some stools for casual seating.

I've always dreamed of having a kitchen with two sinks, one for washing pots and the other for food prep. I would consider keeping both the new sink and the old IF the counter over the radiator (perhaps bumped out a bit or curved) is big enough for family meals and if you have a dining table in the dining/living room. Alternatively, you could put a small dinette there.
November 17, 2012 at 6:37pm   
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PRO
Lucie Charron Designer
Im not so good on english but sexe thé simple image of an Island With Silk ,
Less expansive and usefull i think. You can install full height storage instead of the actual Sink.
Home thaïs simple sketch can help you seeing what it could be.
November 18, 2012 at 6:57pm   
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victorianbungalowranch
That could be nice but I don't think the room is wide enough. Please post dimensions. Also installing plumbing in an island is expensive and limits your options for change later. You might be better istalling a sink next to the stove and having a thinner movable island with seating to give yourself more workspace and tuture space planning flexibility.

You say this is an apartment. I hope you plan on staying a long time to put this much money into plumbing changes and whatnot. It cost me 100 Euro just to unclog the sewage line!.

Of course the traditional version of a counter is a table, which is a good height for many tasks. Try pushing it out in the middle of the room with the chairs on one side and see how it works for work flow.

As I see it based on various guidelines, you need at least 4 meters in width to the room to accomodate an island: It looks like it might be less than that, especially near the door, and you need to allow adaquate door swing for the French doors as well.

If you go with an island, I would also consider offsetting the sink from the stove so there aren't conflicts when two cooks are working.

RULES: http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm

The width of a work aisle should be at least 42” (107 cm)for one cook and at least 48” (122 cm) for multiple cooks. Measure between the counter frontage, tall cabinets and/or appliances--allow adaquate room to open oven and opposite cupboards.

Guideline: The width of a walkway should be at least 36”. (91 cm)
If traffic passes behind the seated diner, allow at least 44” to walk past. (112 cm)

Guideline: Kitchen seating should be a minimum of 24" wide for each person but 28-30" is better. (61-76 cm)

For 30" high tables/counters, a minimum 18" deep clear knee space for each seated diner
For 36" high counters, a minimum 15" deep clear knee space for each seated diner.
For 42" high counters, a minimum 12"deep clear knee space for each seated diner. .
Code Requirements: No national code requirements (30.5 cm-47cm)

Kitchen seating areas should be 28” – 34” high x 30” – 36” wide x 19” deep to better accommodate people of various sizes or those using a mobility aid. (71-86 cm high x 30.5 -91 cm wide by 50 cm deep) + plus depth of sink (50 + cm)

So to do what you want, you need an island at least 1 meter or more wide, another 1.22 m for workspace by stove, about .65 meters for the counter for the stove, plus1.12 m for the walkway to the door. So that totals to just shy of a room 4 meters wide for minimum clearance, and that is if all the chairs are pushed in and there isn't anything hanging on the wall in the way and whatnot.

I bet you could go to IKEA or a similar store and get a couple of designs drawn up for not much money, In the states, there are online kitchen design programs to help.
November 18, 2012 at 8:19pm   
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PRO
Marie Hebson's interiorsBYDESIGN Inc.
Yes, I like the idea of an island - putting the sink in that island.
You have a lovely kitchen, but the floors could use some work - don't like the tone with your marble countertop. Good luck with your project!
November 18, 2012 at 8:27pm   
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Nina Giogeyty
victorianbungalowranch thank you for your suggestions. One think i don't unterstand my hood ,as it is now, vent outside to the patio so what i loose if it vent outside? Is there another way ?? The apartment it's my one. The width on the side of the door is 2,90m from wall to wall, so island is not possible.I am posting a floor plan. No IKEA is in my area. And all the other shops will make plan only if you buy.(I am in crete to greece)
November 19, 2012 at 4:07am   
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victorianbungalowranch
Gee, I though IKEA was just about everywhere! They do have a kitchen planner you can download and play with, and the cabinet sizes would be more in line with what you can get locally. http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/ or http://www.ikea.gr/default.aspx?page=home

I assume you want to match your nice existing cabinetry, so once you play around with this and cut out newpapers and try different things out in the kitchen and figure out what you want, you can go to them and get them to finalize the design and spec it out.

I know things tend to be more closed off in Europe than they are in the US for energy efficiency and whatnot, but would it be possible to just simply remove/relocate the windows and doors to the entry and open up that space? That little jog is really messing up your floorplan. Perhaps it would be possible, although yes, at some expense, to move the window and door panels to square it off, or go on a diagonal, or even move the whole wall out to steal space from the front entry, which looks to be quite large.

And that tiny patio access through the pantry seems very odd--can you get to it from the front entry as well? Is the pantry for the washer and the patio is to dry your laundry?

Anyway, if you are moving plumbing and whatnot, I don't think it would be that much more to move the existing door and window wall to the entry to maximize traffic flow, and would be well worth the extra money to give you a more workable space. Also helps create a nice little "parking area for the stroller :) Option One could possibly have a small penninsula by the doorway instead ot the cabinets.

I tried an option with an island, but it would be a lot more expensive and not much more function. It could be done with the Option One layout to give you a bit more elbow room and space for a penninsula, especially if doors were set square with living room.
November 19, 2012 at 12:36pm   
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Nina Giogeyty
Thank you very much for your time and work. I tried ikea kitchen planner but i can't do the diagonal wall of my kitchen, or i'm doing something wrong.tiny patio is only for having fresh air and some light for the bathroom and kitchen(for all the apartments )i'm first floor that's why they made the pantry so if something happens we can go in from my floor.It is really messing my kitchen.I messure my kitchen and some things are not correct ,so i made a floor plan with my entry. Also sending a photo of the whole set of glass panels.In kitchen are also plumings ready behind my first tall cabinetry next to the door which lead to the balkoni that is why i told to move the cooktop in table place. Thank you all again.
November 24, 2012 at 2:54pm   
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Nina Giogeyty
my floorplan
November 24, 2012 at 3:26pm   
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victorianbungalowranch
Boy, that is a real pickle you got there! All that glass is pretty, but the plan is not terribly practical, and apparently the person designing it does not cook much! Your front entry is approx. 2.1 m x 3 meters and with 7 doors. It looks like you only use 3-4 of them on a regular basis.

The only thing I can think of off-hand is to make the bigger kitchen door a wall (keep the transom perhaps) and putting a L-shaped counter there with the sink moved to where the door is now. That would be quite expensive probably, but would be a somewhat better work triangle for you, and would add a nice bit of counter next to the sink and will still get some nice window light.

Or two, making that part a seating area, as suggested above in Option One, but with less counter and cabinet space by the sink. Or by angling the souble doors, so you enter pointing roughly toward the stove, which will make it less awkward for both the new sink and seating areas.

I haven't used the kitchen planner, but I'm surprised you can't use it for angled walls. I've seen so many odd angles in Europe, I would think it is pretty common. You could just download standard cabinet dimentions from your supplier or IKEA and use that unless you plan on doing it custom. Worth a try.

May be worth going to the store where you plan on buying the new cabinets and let them help you with this after you come up with some possibilities.
November 25, 2012 at 2:58pm   
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Kim D
Hi Nina, have you seen inside any of the other units in your building to see how your neighbors handle the same problem?
November 25, 2012 at 4:54pm   
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Nina Giogeyty
Hi! Yes they are pretty BUT.........So , i am not planing to buy new cabinets but change the color to white because as Marie said the marbel is white but cabinets beige and walls mint it's not really nice.1ST option i think is more possible because plumbing isn't possible to go to the table location.Sending a draw but i think i must remove 1 tall cabinet and the two right to the fridge. I have seen 2 apartments but they don't have the door to the patio.Also sending draws without dimensions which i don't know.And what if i replace the table with more cabinets and a counter for eating whould i have better look then?
November 26, 2012 at 12:43pm   
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victorianbungalowranch
Yeah, I wondered if it was too tight with the fridge to do an L where the sink is--even if you take out cabinets it is going to be awkward. Option 4 might be possible if you move the fridge to the other side of the stove maybe

I think Options 2 and 3 have potential with some work, but what about the door to the pantry? Is there a reason why you can't put a cabinet in front of the bump out on the long wall? Is that where the radiator is?

I like your cabinetry and think you should use as much of it as possible, but you are probably going to need a piece or two to fill in with a new arrangement, especially in the corners. The cabinet color looks fine to me with the floors. Changing it to white probably not worth the trouble and paint won't wear as well as the factory finish. Perhaps a stronger color on the wall would make the cabinets look whiter, and would be a whole lot easier to do than painting the cabinets. .

I see you are moving around doors and windows and plumbing, so it is definately time to consult a professional to figure out the best option for you. It is going to get costly. Better to pay now than to make a big costly mistake later.

Here are some modifications of Options 3 and 4 with the work triangle indicated. I think the variation on Option 3 works best, but it does close off access to the terrace a bit and would be more expensive, but it has the potential to create two nice work zones--one with a table or work counter for baking and whatnot and the other the main cooking and washing up area.. Option 4 is a modification of what you have already, but moving things around a bit and I'm not sure it is much of an improvement on what you have now.
November 26, 2012 at 7:48pm   
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Gene Curtis
Furniture that is efficient in occupying space would also be helpful. Here are some furniture which I think would fit the kind of area you have - http://www.homefurnitureandpatio.com/servlet/Categories?search_keyword=kitchen&keyword=kitchen&submit.x=20&submit.y=10&oem=all
November 27, 2012 at 6:37am   
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Nina Giogeyty
Plans2 and 3 are from other apartments of the building. So maybe it is time to move on with this and also make my laundry room ,which i don't have.So are these good ideas for kitchen??? And also make my dream ,of having a laundry room, come true???THANKS THANKS for helping my and making my mind work overtime for the best!!!!
November 27, 2012 at 7:31am   
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victorianbungalowranch
You already have a small pantry that opens to a terrace. I think that is the logical spot for the laundry with a stacking unit and a rack outside. If you put it where the sink is presently since water is already there and access to outside for the dryer vent, if you use one, does it have to be completely separate?

I think the stove and sink are too cramped together in Option 1, and there is the ventilation issue with Option 1 above. Also makes the kitchen much smaller. This does have the advantage of not moving any doors though.

Are you open to getting rid of the table or putting in an eating pennisula since you have a formal dining room?
November 27, 2012 at 9:10am   
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Nina Giogeyty
I'm open to getting rid of the table from beggining my only thought is my small childrens so i want something not very high. I'm just using the door as my advantage in order to put in my steam press too and not hide it to an other room or cabinet.So option 2 without table but an eating pennisula?? PLEASE explain me the ventilation issue!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 27, 2012 at 10:52am   
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