Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design A good lighting store should be able to help you achieve proper lighting for your kitchen. Take a look at a couple of ideas below.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design The key in your lighting problem is that it's all too far away from where it is needed. I presume you have under cabinet lighting. But in addition to that, you need to bring lights down to where they will be useful to you, using a system such as I showed above.
traysza You need one or two more layers of light in the space. A couple of ideas would be: a big glowey pendant like the one above, undercabinet lights, puck lights in the upper cabinets, or lights on top of the cabinets (a good fluorescent would even work there, as long as it's not too bright). Adding a few inexpensive strip lights on your upper cabinets would actually help open the space up a lot since you have a lot of white wall space above to reflect the light back down. If you're feeling like you need more light for food prep, definitely look into some undercounter lights (check out CSL "counter attack" and Kicher for some nice options).
Frank Webb's Bath and Lighting Center I would replace the ceiling fan with a chandelier and add under cabinet lighting as well as lights on top of the cabinets, unfortunately whomever did the recessed lighting layout did it wrong, they aren't lighting the table or the countertops, they are just barely lighting your floor! (and the floor doesn't need to be illuminated in a kitchen)
mimibrunner To really get the effect that you want, you could take bold steps: remove some or all of the wall cabinets, change the countertops to white marble or Caesarstone, paint the cabinets white or light gray, add skylights and/or windows. It's a big, beautiful space, but the dark cabinets and counters and small window don't do it justice.
Jayme Hobbs Lighter bar stools...silver or metal? Seems like lighting is an issue. A few white/light area runners on the floor....a few light accessories on the countertops. Maybe paint or wrap just the island with a light material.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design Certainly, lightening up the cabinets, countertops, etc. would help, but the lighting problem itself would still persist. Look at the lighting. It's all recessed in a ceiling far away from where it is needed.
The lighting must be improved regardless of what other changes are made.
Christine If you have some bank... Skylights and swap the window over the sink out for something larger. Single pane with no divided lights. If cost is a concern I would start by taking those stools out and getting them painted and upgrade to a lighter fabric (white faux ostrich anyone!). Throw down a bright runner by the stool and just add a large crystal and metal chandelier. You could also opt to paint or put up a wallpaper on the backs of the upper cabinet walls or even add antique mirrors to the backs of some cabinets. Just something with a little sheen. If you have a slightly bigger budget you can change the island granite for something much lighter. You could also paint the pitched areas in the ceiling a bright Tuscan yellow. Your down lighting is a bit dated so you can upgrade those and add a few more as well.
Interiors International, Inc. I love the look of the dark cabinets and black tops but I couldn't live with it. I like a bright kitchen. I would put in white counter tops tomorrow, but that's just me.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design Part of the original question had to do with whether you should change the tile. Is your wood flooring actually tile? If not, then what tile did you mean?
gingerclaire I agree that although you clearly have beautiful cabinets in your kitchen, the look is quite heavy with the lighting you have. I think the easiest change to make would be to add a statement pendant above your island. This is quite a useful article
Also, adding a flexible track of warm-white LEDs above your cabinets would cast a gentle light upwards onto your ceilings (and use very little electricity). You could even do the same around your base cabinets if you were feeling adventurous -I don't think your flooring wouldn't be quite as reflective as the one in the picture below.
Just painting (or papering as Christine suggested) the backs of your glazed wall cupboards and the plate rack a lighter colour would provide a lift from the dark wood expanse that you currently have.
Rosemarie There are some beautiful hanging lights that you can put in just like a lightbulb in your ceiling spots, there are a variety of shades even glass pendant fixtures. Personally I like the drum shades, hanging several feet down from the ceiling . Sure beats the cost of an electrician and new wiring!
Susan Jablon Mosaics Hi missb!
If you're not too attached to the backsplash tile, you could replace it with a glass tile that has an iridescent finish that will reflect and enhance the light in your kitchen. The tile below is a bright white with an iridescent finish, and also attached is an image of this tile in a kitchen. http://www.houzz.com/discussions/149273/What-is-the-name-of-the-tiles-used-for-the#comments By the way, your cabinetry is gorgeous!! Good luck!
By Design EK I think you definitely need some contrast and lighting over the island. I would add skylights if it is an option as that would make it much easier. Consider adding some color. When doing all neutrals, especially dark neutrals, it is often that the space appears dark. Contrast will make it feel brighter. Paint the back wall a pretty soft coral or camel gold. Add a large piece of artwork above the window. You could actually add some transom windows above the current window instead of skylights if it is in your budget. A large round window or two triangular windows would do the trick, but do you get direct light through this window? If not go with skylights instead. If the added holes in the wall are not an option go back to the artwork, color, and lighting. If you can redo the backsplash some thing with glass or metal to pick up the light you do have would help also. A pretty gold or white glass mosaic would be wonderful, or white marble which glows ( marble can stain if you are a messy cook it may not be a good option.) Carry the tile up around the window ending at the top of the cabinets. If your undercabinet lighting is older you may want to replace it with the new strip lighting that is available. What you have seems to be absorbed by the cabinets and backsplash. i would also add some lighting above the cabinets to light the ceiling. Lastly if not adding skylights consider adding something else on the ceiling. I recently designed some squares framed with chair rail molding on the ceiling and then paint your warm color in the middle to add some warmth and brightness to the ceiling. I would probably make a big square around the can lighting with the trim and then paint in the center. It may be challenging getting up there but the effect would make a lot of difference!
sandkshouse Under cabinet lighting. Lighting on top of the cabinets aiming up. Pendent light over the sink. Lighting over the island. I'd take a trip to a lighting store. Not a Lowe's or Home Depot, but a dedicated lighting store.
eagledzines There are three types of electric lighting to consider: Direct--focused on all work areas, Indirect (ambient) that gives and/or throws light to the whole room; and Mood lighting--low level lighting designed for aesthetics. Try to incorporate all three.
missb Hi Everyone! I am still sorting through all these great ideas. I will head out this week to a good lighting store and see if I can find a good island fixture. My question about the tile did refer to the backsplash in the kitchen. Hope this information helps you with more advice Carolyn Albert Kincl Design. The lighting ideas are really fabulous. The Tile posted by Susan Jablon Mosiacs is beautiful. Is this tile going to look good with the dark granite? I really don't want to change the granite. North Bay Homes....Thank you for detailing how the tile should be around the kitchen window. I was rushed into picking the kitchen tile and very disappointed with the outcome. Once again everyone! I really appreciate the advice.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design Looking at your island, it probably should have two good sized pendants. If the island is centered under the ceiling peak, then they could hang symmetrically from either side of the peak. Be sure to tell the lighting store that they'll be hanging from a sloping ceiling as not all fixtures can do that. They'll also need to know the ceiling height so that they can order the correct length of rods or chains from which the fixtures will hang.
missb Thank you Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design! I have traveled the corners of this Earth, and yet...can not decorate my own house. I have one very good lighting store near my house and I will bring your comments with me! Did you have any input on a different backsplash for this kitchen? I do not want to change the granite. Any sugestions are greatly welcomed and glad to write, I am now a follower from NY. Love your Houzz page and ideas! Thanks again!
Susan Jablon Mosaics Personally, I think the white iridescent tile would look very nice with your dark granite and cabinets, it would provide a beautiful contrast, and its neutral incase you decide to change any surfaces in the future. Here's a link to that tile: http://www.susanjablon.com/5-8-inch-white-iridescent-glass-tile.html
Mega Supply Store There's a couple of things you can do depending on whether you want to do a big overhaul or a small project. For a larger project, consider painting/replacing the cabinets to a lighter color, it will reflect more light. Also, adding mirrored back splashes make the kitchen look bigger and brighter.
For a smaller and more manageable project, consider adding more layers of light, something like a drop down light fixture would do the job!
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design I would definitely lighten up the backsplash with some mosaic tile that adds sparkle and life. If you were ever to change a countertop, the one I would change is the island. And I'd be sure to make it all one level at 36" high, standard counter height. We just aren't doing many two level countertops anymore.
Changing that one countertop to butcher block or a off white quartz or granite would offer a lot more light to the area and create a happier space.
If you do it, you'll be amazed at how it opens up your room!
Another less expensive option would be to paint the island white, keeping the old countertop for now.
eagledzines Try new lighting before using lightening effects.
Focused lighting on work spaces such as sconces on each side of sink attached to cabinets, under cabinet lighting and, as mentioned, drop lighting over island and display arm lighting could be considered over tall cabinets.
Ambient light: As suggested, lighting on top of cabinets that shines upward and reflects off ceiling. Lighting over island can serve as both focused and ambient, depending on the fixture. Explain your needs to a lighting specialist at a lighting store. Some are designed to cast light up, some down and some both. You want both.
Mood lighting: Use interior cabinet lighting in cabinets with glass doors. Change shelves in these cabinets to glass shelves so light will filter throughout the cabinet. Rope lighting can be used under the countertop on the island
missb Thank you again for all the helpful comments. I would love to change the kitchen island. The bar height counter drives me insane. The island does have my range top. Will I need to move the range? I do like the idea of the white granite for the island. The tile mosaics for a backsplash does interest me. Thank you again for all the wonderful ideas. I will keep updating our progress. Contractor coming this weekend. My fireplace wall is first to fix. See attached pics! This is the other side of the Great room with the above Kitchen!
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design You would NOT have to move your range from the island if you changed the countertop. And you could cut 6" off the legs of your barstools for the new height. What are you going to do with the FP wall?
missb We are replacing the existing cultured stone. We also are lowering the ceiling in doorway to master bedroom to match the height of the trim over French doors to sun porch. Still need to decide on whether to close off the alcove that was built to house stereo equipment or leave it and lower that height to match the trim as well. Our air conditioning vents above fireplace have kept us from making the fireplace taller. Any more ideas would be great. We are not putting a tv over the fireplace. My husband installed the culture stone that you see on the fireplace now. We do have another rough cut timber available for the mantle if we design it wider. Thanks again for all the advice. I really do appreciate this site.
missb Carolyn the sconces sound interesting, would these have to match with the pendants over the island? Also would the sconces attach to the cabinets? I am having a hard time visualizing this, but I will search online tonight. Thank you again all and I will post before and after.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design The sconces need to coordinate well with the pendants but they should not match them. I would placed the sconces on the walls flanking the sink, above the splash, not mounted on the cabinets.
Stacey Rushing I think lighting is the main issue. You might want to lighten your island. I would suggest painting it maybe a light blue gray Valspar Azure Snow. It would add contrast to all the dark you have going on, plus you could keep the bar stools you have. I would add a valance in a fun print high over the kitchen window, light colors nothing dark.
missb I can not get my pics to download... I like Crisp Architects project labeled "bright Kitchen" and "Hudson Valley Home." They are on this website. Thank you all!
ruthmand I keep looking at the photos and thinking that all that white is not helping. How about painting the peaked end wall a nice color. That would make the kitchen cabinets stand out more and brighten things up. Then you can think about doing the same thing, or something similar, on your fireplace wall when finished. You have beautiful cabinets that deserve more attention.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design Missb, I think that two 15" pendants would work well, although it would help to know the overall size of the island. Have you found one you like? What's the wattage?
Christine FREY You need something original and exotic such attached Moroccan pendants to give a joyful light with beautiful shades on the dark woods. See my ideabook.
missb Carolyn, you are great! The island is 69 3/4" by 46". I meaasured all the way to the end of the bar height granite top. Trying to convince my husband to change this to counter height. And would I remove the ceiling fan above? I will attach pictures of pendants tonight. My kids are almost off the bus. Thanks again!
missb Carolyn... while I have your interest...I posted pictures above of my fireplace. My husband is having an issue with the small strips of wall that run down along either side the hearth? Do you see a solution to this? Shouls I also move my hearth down after closing off the niche? What a project.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design The 15" pendant size sounds fine for the size of island you have. You'll need to verify with electrician the feasibility of the project before ordering fixtures.
Regarding the tall audio equipment niche, if you need a bookcase, I'd lower the top to even with the French door trim and put a false back on the space so the bookcase is only about a foot deep. The hearth can remain raised as it's a nice extra seating space.
Have you asked a heating/ AC person about whether the vents could be moved to a different wall?
We had some changes made to our AC a couple of years ago and it wasn't a major deal.
Jonathan Hress Design I would suggest a large rustic lantern or chandelier instead of fan. A bright colorful window treatment mounted outside the frame. Maybe large Ginger jars sitting above cabinets at each end.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design As for whether you should remove the ceiling fan, I do not see one in the picture. Am I missing something? It will need to be removed if it's over the island. I'd definitely move the vents.
designideas4me kat7464... please tell me more about your sun tubes. I have considered putting those in. The installer said I can only do it in specific spots ( not where I wanted) due to the a/c/ vents and equipment related to it that is in the attic. I have a single story. Also does the light shine straight down or reflect off mirrors at the end of the tube? How big of an area is lit up? any issues with cold or hot air entering? water leaks? Plz tell me more. Thx
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design If the fan is centered over the island, it will provide the electrical connection you need up there. You'll then be able to use one linear pendant such as is shown below, or change the connection to two placed further away from from the center point.
janishill Depending on your budget you might want to add sun tubes and/or pendant lights over the breakfast bar. Open the space above the windows by having more windows installed.
Replace back splash with mirrored tiles for instant brightness.
If that is out of the budget try taking out that dark rug and replacing it with something lighter, brighter in color. Then replace the dark blinds with colorful Roman shades that coordinate with the new rug.
Next consider painting the bar stools lime green, bright orange or yellow to add a dash of happiness. If you don't want to paint them then recover them a bright print that coordinates with the rug and Roman shade fabric.
Add a large mirror above the windows.
Last, but not least you might consider painting the walls a wamer shade of white. The white you have has cool undertones which make the space seem even darker.
I remember seeing your room when you asked about furniture, etc. on the other side.
missb Carolyn, I really like the trestle pendant. My fan is placed directly over my range top, but not center of the island. Will I need to move this? Taking these pictures to a great lighting store tomorrow. Thank you for all your help! I really appreciate this! Work is starting soon!
missb janishill... thank you for adding the "dash of happiness". My husband really likes his brown. I am planning on painting the walls papaya by benjamin moore. I will post a picture of that tomorrow. Goodnight all!
janishill Can I tlk you into using Consentino Chardonnay instead? They are very close, but the Papaya has cool undertones while the Consentino Chardonnay has warm undertones which will brighten the room. The cabinets have warm undertones as does the wood trim which will actually make this work better.
missb Here is an update everyone! We are adding box beams, added the fieplace to the ceiling and removed all three ceiling fans. We are adding a light over the kitchen island, putting a ceiling fan back over the dining table and a chandelier by the fireplace. Any input? I also need two fixtures over foyer hall and one over staircase. Your help is appreciated.
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design It's coming right along isn't it! I'm not so sure about the advisability of a fan over the dining table. Is it to cool the food??:) How close to the FP will the chandelier be? Can we see photos please of foyer hall and staircase?
missb Hi Carolyn! here are some more pics of foyer hall and stairs. We did remove the 4 high hat lighitng fixtures over the foyer and took down an oddly placed chandelier over stairs. Now... we have a blank slate for better lighting fixtures. We have three lighting outlets for over the great room. Do you think it best to drop a chandelier over the dining are, than the fireplace? I will post an old picture of the fans. Thanks again!
Carolyn Albert-Kincl Design Hi missb, Yes I think a chandelier over the table would work better for you, unless you want to do multiple chandeliers which could also work. Fixtures over staircases are always tricky because you have to eventually change the light bulbs! Have you considered sconces for there, placed low enough so that a tall person can reach up to change the bulbs?
Cabinets 4U, Inc. You have a beautiful kitchen! I'm sharing 3 of my favorite lighting example pictures. I agree that your ceiling fixtures need to be much closer to your work area to be effective. You may also want to consider adding lighting:
missb Carolyn...yes. I have considered other types of lighting. I have not ruled them out yet. If you could post some ideas of Chandeliers. I also posted again entitled Hudson Valley Home Staircase help. Take a look at that post. I cna not figure out how to get my column up from corner banister. lol
missb Update on the renovation. The ceiling with box beams and fireplace are complete. Here is a few pics, any input on paint samples in third picture would be great. The ceiling is ben Moore white down. The friend entrance has beadboard and Ben Moore templeton grey. We ordered lighting fixtures today and will try to post pics later! Thank you all,
Terri Loney I would ad a beam across my kitchen stained then hang some pendant lights from it an u can also do some accent spot lights from the beams. These also add more architectural interest.
Aestivation Designs LLC Skylights, skylights, skylights!!! And 2 gorgeous chandeliers above the island would be a wow factor!!! Plus a larger window above sink -as high as you could go will be fabulous!!!
missb Sorry for the above post. Trying to post a picture of lighting fixtures. Currey and co Zara fixture for main foyer. Two in hall entrance, flush mount and 1 over center of stairs, chandelier, 20" . Let me know what u think. Not sure if my chosen paint will work with Hesse fixtures. I have picked carrington beige and audobon russet on wall behind staircase. Any input?
Urbana ~ Designer Ellen Crystal cabinets 4U nailed it...
1) indirect lights over the top cabinets will bounce plenty of light off the ceiling. the crown will hide the fixture & you'll get all the benefit of brightness
2) indirect lights under the uppers will highlight your counter surface & brighten your splash
3) a beautiful drop fixture over the island will illuminate the space in the center of the kitchen. With such high ceilings it can be a pretty large dramatic fixture.
4) a fixture that matches the island fixture dropped over table
5) sconces on the side walls of cabinets beside sink... illuminate that area better
6) put everything on dimmers so can crank up or down for light levels.
7) lights inside uppers either side of window.. mirror backs, glass shelves. Will add sparkle & reflection
missb Another painting choice to make. Do I continue templeton grey by Benjamin Moore or add one wall audobon russet by stairs. Or do I wrap the walls of grey on left to around main foyer by stairs to the right? Not sure if russet goes w new lighting fixtures...but I love with cabinets.
dlapollo wrap the grey around
it is easy on the eyes and changing color is shocking and interuptive and
the russett color is so old fashion!
look at the benjamin moore color - silver fox
if you don't want to go very dark grey, like BM - Stone
and if you choose a white anywhere, I love BM - Decorators White
Urbana ~ Designer Ellen Crystal nice fabulous choice.. great size in keeping with the space. ... the lights on top of cabinets look a dramatic improvement.
gingerclaire How long do you think you'll get your husband to stand there? I like the style of light you have chosen, can you get him to stand on a chair?
missb Gingerclaire, this pic was taken right before he almost dropped it backwards over his head. I am thinking ths fixture should go over our handmade oak trestle table? Or do you think in the kitchen?
missb Here is the table, it is our favorite wedding gift made by a Dear friend. I do still need to pick chairs... but I will save that for another post.
missb Update...here are he other fixtures for the foyer. Also opting my prints I m going to frame for the foyer. Any suggestions. Painting this week and crown molding begins.
missb I will double check with husband. I plan on only using prints of birds we would see outside. Downstairs I have another wall to paint and decorate with family photos. I also have some really funny vintage photos of circus acts...men's trapeze, woman on old fashioned bike...all from the 30s . Now you have me thinking. Thank you!
Suzanne Sheldon Either a high bank of windows or skylights would help. You have a great opportunity to come up with some fantastic lighting with that great ceiling. My ceilings are too low, but I would put in some terrific pendant lamps. There are so many styles to choose from. I have recessed spot lights all over my house. Because my ceilings aren't high, they work in the kitchen for work spaces. But a pendant brings the light down to where it's needed, without flooding the area. I rarely use most of my spot lights, because high ceiling lights are harsh and unflattering. Also, my kitchen lights are set into black recesses, that may be why they look much better, while the rest of the houses recessed spots have white backgrounds and I hate them. I'd look at a great kitchen design shop for light ideas, they often have the latest and best available trends. You can see how they work in a kitchen. Under-cabinet mounted lighting is key, and halogen lighting gives off a very nice light. My friend has tiny lights inside her cabinets with glass doors. You don't want to be personally responsible for heating up the planet, but using each type of light as needed could be very effective. You don't need all the lights on all the time.
missb Chandelier finally up. I still need to adjust the height and waiting to put lamp shades on after painting is complete. Any input I do appreciate. I also like my long table on the side of the great room, but what would I do with the extra space by railing?
gingerclaire You're not far off at the height it is now, I bet it's feeling good now it's all coming together! Have you considered leaving it without shades?
missb I did like it without the shades. I figured I could change it up time to time. I hung the chandelier at 36" , but raised it to 45 1/2". Getting a lot of feedback that this is too high and too wide for table? My ceilings are a little bit under 16 '?
The lighting must be improved regardless of what other changes are made.
Good luck
Also, adding a flexible track of warm-white LEDs above your cabinets would cast a gentle light upwards onto your ceilings (and use very little electricity). You could even do the same around your base cabinets if you were feeling adventurous -I don't think your flooring wouldn't be quite as reflective as the one in the picture below.
Just painting (or papering as Christine suggested) the backs of your glazed wall cupboards and the plate rack a lighter colour would provide a lift from the dark wood expanse that you currently have.
If you're not too attached to the backsplash tile, you could replace it with a glass tile that has an iridescent finish that will reflect and enhance the light in your kitchen. The tile below is a bright white with an iridescent finish, and also attached is an image of this tile in a kitchen. http://www.houzz.com/discussions/149273/What-is-the-name-of-the-tiles-used-for-the#comments
By the way, your cabinetry is gorgeous!! Good luck!
For a smaller and more manageable project, consider adding more layers of light, something like a drop down light fixture would do the job!
Changing that one countertop to butcher block or a off white quartz or granite would offer a lot more light to the area and create a happier space.
If you do it, you'll be amazed at how it opens up your room!
Another less expensive option would be to paint the island white, keeping the old countertop for now.
Focused lighting on work spaces such as sconces on each side of sink attached to cabinets, under cabinet lighting and, as mentioned, drop lighting over island and display arm lighting could be considered over tall cabinets.
Ambient light: As suggested, lighting on top of cabinets that shines upward and reflects off ceiling. Lighting over island can serve as both focused and ambient, depending on the fixture. Explain your needs to a lighting specialist at a lighting store. Some are designed to cast light up, some down and some both. You want both.
Mood lighting: Use interior cabinet lighting in cabinets with glass doors. Change shelves in these cabinets to glass shelves so light will filter throughout the cabinet. Rope lighting can be used under the countertop on the island
My husband installed the culture stone that you see on the fireplace now. We do have another rough cut timber available for the mantle if we design it wider. Thanks again for all the advice. I really do appreciate this site.
Regarding the tall audio equipment niche, if you need a bookcase, I'd lower the top to even with the French door trim and put a false back on the space so the bookcase is only about a foot deep. The hearth can remain raised as it's a nice extra seating space.
Have you asked a heating/ AC person about whether the vents could be moved to a different wall?
We had some changes made to our AC a couple of years ago and it wasn't a major deal.
Replace back splash with mirrored tiles for instant brightness.
If that is out of the budget try taking out that dark rug and replacing it with something lighter, brighter in color. Then replace the dark blinds with colorful Roman shades that coordinate with the new rug.
Next consider painting the bar stools lime green, bright orange or yellow to add a dash of happiness. If you don't want to paint them then recover them a bright print that coordinates with the rug and Roman shade fabric.
Add a large mirror above the windows.
Last, but not least you might consider painting the walls a wamer shade of white. The white you have has cool undertones which make the space seem even darker.
I remember seeing your room when you asked about furniture, etc. on the other side.
I know the CC will 'feel' so much better!
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1) indirect lights over the top cabinets will bounce plenty of light off the ceiling. the crown will hide the fixture & you'll get all the benefit of brightness
2) indirect lights under the uppers will highlight your counter surface & brighten your splash
3) a beautiful drop fixture over the island will illuminate the space in the center of the kitchen. With such high ceilings it can be a pretty large dramatic fixture.
4) a fixture that matches the island fixture dropped over table
5) sconces on the side walls of cabinets beside sink... illuminate that area better
6) put everything on dimmers so can crank up or down for light levels.
7) lights inside uppers either side of window.. mirror backs, glass shelves. Will add sparkle & reflection
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/mini-chandeliers/currey-company-9979-winterthur-4-light-zara-flush-mini-chandelier-viejo-gold_g472115.html?isku=4419305&linkloc=collectionProductItemsImage
White
and paint walls dark grey..benjamin moore - Stone
gorgeous
it is easy on the eyes and changing color is shocking and interuptive and
the russett color is so old fashion!
look at the benjamin moore color - silver fox
if you don't want to go very dark grey, like BM - Stone
and if you choose a white anywhere, I love BM - Decorators White