Ok, why is it hard to find a designer
Earlier today, I was discussing, ok venting about being fired as a client by a designer before I got the chance to hire her. She gave me some excuse, but it turns out I was not organized well enough for her and did not have a piece of art or a pillow for inspiration. Is this common? We don't have much space and our recycling and our bookcase weren't appropriately organized for her. This all meant that I don't have the right
attitude for her to take on this project. Well, if I knew what I was doing, I would not be hiring a designer. At this point, I lack any confidence in either hiring a decorator or decorating Looks like I may need an organizer before I need a decorator. This is why people shut down and don't get decorators/designers.Millions of people hire designers every day. Why is this so hard?
attitude for her to take on this project. Well, if I knew what I was doing, I would not be hiring a designer. At this point, I lack any confidence in either hiring a decorator or decorating Looks like I may need an organizer before I need a decorator. This is why people shut down and don't get decorators/designers.Millions of people hire designers every day. Why is this so hard?
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of one of the rooms in my house. She gave me the layout with just chairs and couches, no end tables, lamps, or accessories in the room. I also paid her for colors that don't work, what a waste of money. I wouldn't work with another decorator for anything now. Most designers want people with big budgets. They don't make money off of average people. If you must work with a designer keep looking and ask all sorts of questions before you pay, esp. if your asking for paint colors. I've had three different designers recommend colors that are too dark or too light. They just wanted to get their money and throw a few colors at me and leave. Who needs that?
I suspect the person realized you were no fool who would easily be separated from their money!!!
Who told you that whopper?
One of my best clients came to me on her bicycle. She had just been to a very snooty and expensive designer. They totally ignored her so she left and came to my studio. She has sent me more business than any other client. I have done 3 homes for her and 15 for her friends. I thank God for that snooty designer! LOL.
And what gets forgotten, is the customer is the customer, not the other way around. i never heard anything so ridiculous. you being fired from the person you wanted to hire?? thats just annoying. If i am too busy or unable to work with the client, i wouldnt take them as a client after the initial consultation. Or maybe their's are different circumstances, but there are better ways to bow out from a job!!
I wanted to share with the commenters your earlier post from today. There are lots of suggestions here and there. Continue your search or post the room that is not working for you. Maybe we can help.
http://www.houzz.com/discussions/335946
My suggestion is, look through some magazines, save your favorite looks, and then have a discussion with your designer. Then you have to trust him/her. That is my biggest frustration, is not getting that trust to carry out the job.
Don't worry, it will happen. Good luck!
We have many excellent designers giving excellent advice here on Houzz.
However, it is difficult to find a skilled designer at a reasonable price that is worthy of your trust.
Unfortunately, that applies to many people in trades and professions across our country.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/arts-and-design/interior-designers.htm
And check their professional record.
Do they meet your state's requirements?
It's a Cape and not huge, but there's just my husband and myself. One thing we DON'T have is storage.
If you agreed on one price for the layout, then what is her legal basis ?
I work in a visual field (though not a designer), so I feel I have a pretty good sense of how things work visually and how elements can work to complement each other. If I ever have doubts or start questioning myself, I typically ask people who I feel have really good taste, and/or who are familiar with specific products I want to use-- I'll just run something by them, to get some reassurance that I'm not completely off the mark. My point, though, is that I've been places where I can sometimes hear and see designers talking to clients-- and I listen (eavesdrop) to their suggestions and advice. And often times, I'm just horrified. I can't determine how this person ever got the label "designer," and I just want to grab that client and steer her away.
I've never hired a designer, but I'm guessing that-- like dentists, doctors, tilers, plumbers, etc-- you have to look very carefully to find the really good ones.
I will say that I had a roofer/carpenter do some work for us once, and we agreed upon a price. A contract was signed. In the end, he did a great job, but it took him longer than he realized. He had the nerve to ask for another $1500, because of the extra time (no extra materials-- just time). I simply told him that's not what we agreed on, and that was his mistake for not estimating properly. He'd been in business for a while, so no excuse.
Check us out...www.in-and-outdesign.com
Like I said, I don't know how everything went down and haven't really heard both sides, but we were hired by an alumni "friend" to do a roof deck. We ended up doing about $1200 worth of work without a deposit or any input, really, from the client. Finally, I realized that the client wasn't going through with the work at all, and instead of trying to get the $500 deposit we asked for, we asked for the entire fee that we incurred. The client ended up telling us that she wasn't paying us any more than $500, and to be honest, we were happy to get that.
Point is...that client is probably telling everyone that we were impossible to deal with, and she is probably bad mouthing us to this day. However, being on the receiving end of client/designer negotiations, I would not choose sides.
But, I wouldn't let one bad experience discourage you. People have bad experiences in other aspects of life. Who hasn't gone to a highly recommended restaurant and had a bad meal...only to go back and have a wonderful one sometime later. Every person, entity, corporation, etc., has bad days.
For instance, let's pretend you want new paint, possibly drapes, redo fireplace, and maybe pick up a new piece of furniture. Instead of hiring a designer to coordinate the entire process a lot of people will go to the other extreme and hire whatever paint company, the drapery people from a building center, let somebody's cousin do fireplace, and end up at a discount furniture store hoping to get lucky. Both versions can be COSTLY and frustrating.
The alternative is to spend money hiring a quality painter or artist, a drapery specialist, an actual stone mason, and hire a home stager to help pick out that last piece of furniture. They do cost more hiring quality, but they will be able to coordinate with each other and can often refer you to other qualified specialists.
In other words, find and hire the people that the designers normally hire and trust your own design instincts. You would be amazed how much these specialists know about design and staging because they work in that environment day in and day out. Worst case scenario. you don't love their advice. At least it was a free add on to the service they do well and not an up charge!
Finally, we realized she was stalling, so we just charged her the entire amount owed (materials research, trying to find finishes, fixtures, etc.). At the end of it all, it took months to get anything, we only got the original deposit. Yes...we don't do that any longer.
Sorry, but I really dislike having my skills dismissed as something anyone can do. I had another friend's wife dismiss my paint color advice (which was given in a very nice way...mentioned that this is what I'd "recommend", but it is his/her choice) and then take the advice of the Sherwin Williams guy even though he had no knowledge of the room lighting, other finishes, etc. She did that right in front of me.
I hate to disagree but just because you are a contractor doesn't mean you are a designer.
In answer to your question, from my perspective, one of the main reasons "for a site like Houzz.com," is for the visuals, and also to determine if a certain product I have in my head, actually exists, and-- if so-- where I can purchase it.
I may be totally sold on an idea of my own, but I'd still be interested in seeing a visual of it, because I realize whatever idea I have in my head has probably been done by someone else, somewhere. I can certainly visualize what it might look like, but if I can see a picture where the idea has actually been completed, then so much the better (sort of like seeing an entire room painted in the color you've already chosen). I'd most likely still use the idea (or the chosen paint) if no picture existed. If one did, though, that would be a bonus. Mainly, though, I can't tell you how many times I've looked to Houzz.com to locate a product to see where I can purchase it, and maybe even to see any product reviews from other home-owners.
So that's a good enough reason, for me, for this site to exist. I feel like that's somewhat different, though, from hiring a designer.
I also agree with the poster above (G3 Studios) who said that people should trust their own design instincts. Absolutely. Also, a good point about talking to your sub-contractors, or specialists (tilers, plumbers, etc). Good ones have seen it all, so they often know what works and what doesn't. The tiler who has done work for me, for decades now, is not only really good at what he does, but he knows--simply from having been in the business so long-- what particular products work well and why certain plans/ideas might not work in my specific case..
I've edited this to add . . . on the other hand, it's probably true that some people just possess no visual or design sense at all and probably shouldn't be left to their own devices. But I do feel that often-times, those people are the ones who end up living in a house totally planned by someone else-- like living uncomfortably in someone else's dream.
The interesting thing is that the images on this site that everyone adds to their ideabooks (like our counters, our media console) are the ones that were conceived of by a designer.
There is much more involved to being a designer than just picking out finish color. Most people hire a designer to help them realize their own vision...and the designer has training to be able to enhance that vision.
I've had so many friends who have asked me to "tell them what I think" after they redecorate their own place. I am sure that most designers on here have had to bite their tongue from that very question from people they know. I can also tell you how many different people I know redecorated themselves and it didn't come out the way they imagined.
Proportion, scale, color theory, etc....are things that most people can see, but don't often know how to employ. For instance, the story I eluded to earlier about being dismissed regarding paint choice...well, the couple was painting a basement with dark wood trim and only two "vent windows", and they chose to paint it a dark grey...not charcoal, thank goodness. I advised them not to do it. It is dark and dreary down there and that is where the kids play. It isn't a very fun and inviting space. But, THEY chose it and of course, they aren't going to admit that it didn't come out the way they envisioned it.
It is pretty interesting that on these forum discussions many people are here to get the input of a good designer, but then so many other people are easy to dismiss the work a great designer can do. I posed this to a guy who was "building his own house" (at 24...he designed and was building his own house)...and he wasn't a designer/architect. I asked him if he would consider representing himself in court on a DUI charge if he wasn't a lawyer? Would he perform his own appendectomy if not a doctor?
In my experience, most people would choose a professional to do a job that they don't do everyday, but when it comes to design, etc., a lot of people think they know just as much as a designer.
When a project starts off this tough it's best to put it on hold for awhile until calmer heads are making the decisions. Even if it were to turn out great, I'm not sure it would feel great because of the distress.
As far as a "certain" order for things to go in, that's more of a myth that reality. Sure it's nice if you can do one thing then move to the next but it rarely works that way anyway. That logic applies when building a lot more than a modest remodel or decorating. Structural issues like electrical, ventilation. flooring, etc., do need a structured calendar, but real professionals can work around each other or out of order within reason.
Every contractor will try and sell you on some mystical perfect situation but the reality is that they are just trying to make their life as easy as possible even if it means making yours or every other contractors life miserable.
You will know when you've assembled the right team and when you do the whole process will actually seem, well, easy.
As stated before, I think a lot of people, like me, have an idea in their head-- and just look for a picture to, perhaps, see the finished product. So, again-- doubtful that my interior design plan or idea is an original one-- and- -even on the designers' end-- "their" idea probably is not an original one, either. Somebody else had done it before them, too---maybe even a (gasp!) untrained homeowner. But simply wanting to see a completed picture of an idea that's probably been used for eons-- or even of a particular manufacturer's product (sink, paint, tub, tile) that's been around for a while-- is helpful.
I understand what you're saying, and I don't downplay what designers can do. And, no, I would not ask my electrician or tiler or plumber to design a space for me. I would, indeed, ask them (the good ones, and those are the only ones I hire) if certain products, or placement of certain products, will work in my situation. I live in an old house, and some ideas I have would work on a design level, but they won't work in the "there's no way to vent that in this house . . . and the studs won't allow this or that . . . or, are you nuts-- I'll have to rebuild your structural flooring for that piece of equipment . . ." kind of level. That sort of help is necessary and invaluable-- and, ultimately-- can often impact the final design.
My sense is that no one is designing in a vacuum. I don't think anyone is that original in his or her ideas. Everyone is borrowing from somewhere, even the designs from other eras.
I, personally, have an innate quality to fix most anything that I set my mind to. Is that normal? Not really, and I've had so many people say so, "What CAN'T you do?" There are a lot of things I can't do. But, just because I rewired my entire vehicle and rebuilt the engine am I going to suggest that anyone can do it and they don't need to go to a mechanic. That is absurd.
Again, you might be one of those random homeowners who possess all the skills a designer does without going to design school.
It is like being in architecture school. I always felt it was a disservice to try to teach every student to be "Frank Gehry" or "Zaha Hadid", etc., instead of teaching them real world skills. I also think it is a disservice to talk someone into redesigning his/her own space just because you can do it.
The other thing...and I'm not trying to be a jerk here...is that you may THINK you can naturally do this stuff, but who knows. A panel of interior designer could look at your place and rip it to shreds.
Again...in my personal and professional experience, most people that design spaces themselves are "fine with it" when it is done and those that hire a great designer "love [their] space" when it is finished.
Judet...thank you for being one that realizes the service you get with a good designer. I applaud you.
To be more specific, I'd probably ask a tile installer about a technical "can you do this" question before I'd ask a designer or tile salesperson. That is different in my opinion.
Interior design is an art not a science.
Many states require Interior designers to hold a B.A. degree .
In addition, accreditation, certification, and licensing is required.
2010 the Median Pay was $46,280 per year or $22.25 per hour.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/arts-and-design/interior-designers.htm
No-- I know that designers (the good ones) are excellent at what they do. I'd never hire one, of course (hence the horrific environment I live in!)-- but I can certainly understand why people would. I'm also older than god, so I've re-done a few houses and -- at this point-- also have a good line on great people (plumbers, tilers, electricians, etc)-- and that's huge, in my opinion. And, also-- in my deluded state-- I imagine I have a really good eye-- so you know, I'm golden . . . well, as long as I don't bring in any designers to survey the place. :)
But we get compensated by the joy it brings, so, it's not too bad:)
Let's switch gears to fashion design. Those people who have a flair for runway design don't always equate to everyday fashion on the street...and vice versa. Everyone has that friend who thinks he/she is a fashion diva and then the rest of the table is thinking, "What the HELL is she/he wearing?"
There is nothing wrong with being confident in your choices, and a choice you make for yourself--as long as you are happy with it--is never wrong. But, being able to design for yourself doesn't necessarily equate to being able to design for someone else.
My points earlier was that design/architecture is a field where a lot of the general public thinks they can do it as good as a professional. One potential client I know hired an interior designer in his building because she was pretty (his language was more descriptive)...and her "designs" weren't good at all. They were outdated, but not "classic". In fact, he was so dissatisfied that he went with her for the wrong reasons that he ended up explaining that "basically I didn't really hire her as a designer...she's more of a project manager." I then explained to him that a really GOOD designer is also a project manager. That's what we get paid to do.
So...professional or otherwise...every designer is not necessarily a good one. As my father used to say, God rest his soul, "What do you call someone who graduated last in their law school class?" "What?" "A lawyer."
(Diana...Jayme is one of those "non-design professionals" on here that I agree with quite often. So yes, you don't have to go to school to be a good designer. Most great artists never studied art in school.)
Oh-- and, yeah, I always use that same line about doctors. ( . . . What do you call someone who graduated last in med school . . . ) So true. And if you read my very first post, I did mention that there are good designers and bad -- like any other profession-- so, you know, tread carefully.
me! Appreciated!
huh?
So, as an amateur photographer from WAY back, I grew up with a film camera. Taking good pictures was the only way to survive if you couldn't develop yourself...too expensive to take a bunch of crappy pictures. Post processing meant physical cropping and burning and dodging...not Photoshop.
An old buddy of mine is a pro-am photographer...he sells stuff part-time. He post-processes the sh*t out of his images. However, I'd grab his camera and he'd always get pissed that the images were decent already. He was like, "Why can you just pick up my camera and the pictures are already good." I said, with heavy sarcasm, "Because I actually KNOW how to take pictures." There are principles to good photography just like there is to good design, and if someone doesn't know those...more than likely, their stuff is going to be mediocre at best.
So everybody...if you didn't catch that, Diana kind of agreed with me. :-) Sorry for using your discussion, Judet, to rage a war on the dismissal of designers!
Jayme, I've had people who said, "You architects always act like what you do is such a big deal...it's not like you are a doctor or something." My retort is this, "Yeah...if a surgeon makes a mistake, he may take a life. If an architect makes a really bad mistake, his building may fall down and take hundreds of lives." For awhile after the WTC towers fell, the architect/engineer could barely talk to anyone. Even though he designed his building to withstand the disaster of the time, it fell due to bigger planes with more fuel. He still blamed himself. I think about that guy almost daily.
Yes, you are underpaid and overworked.
You are employed in an essential profession in our society.
You will always be in demand, bless you!
My parents taught me that I could become anything I wanted, but that I would be wise to develop skills necessary to society.
If I could make my avocation, my vocation , and could make a decent living, I
would be blessed with personal satisfaction.
Jayme...I DO think you are essential and underpaid, so let's make sure that is clear!
Accepted!!
I am currently doing research at University.
I do have my Ph.D.
I would never place an architect on the same skill or educational level as an interior designer.
Still...interior designers work their butts off. We were designing a hospital and one of my favorite co-workers would design rooms and stay 36-48 hours at the office in order to have stuff done for meetings and charrettes. She never got the pay she deserved, the promotions she deserved or anything else for that matter. She left the firm and moved back home...what a shame.
To quote Robin Williams as John Keeting in Dead Poets Society, "We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for."
I would definitely equate great design as being akin to and having poetry. beauty, romance and love all rolled into it.
Architects plan and design buildings and other structures.
Bachelor’s degree$72,550
There are three main steps in becoming a licensed architect: earning a professional degree in architecture, gaining work experience through an internship, and passing the Architect Registration Exam.
[2010]
nFormal observed above (somewhere) that many posters here, while attempted to do design themselves, their ideabooks are filled with photos of spaces that the vast majority are obviously (and most have credtis) professional designed, be they interiors or kitchens by interior designers or whole houses by architects.
And the dissconnect between what these posters are"designing" and what in these ideabooks to me is obvious. One recent case in point is this one: http://www.houzz.com/discussions/324343/FLOORPLAN-Replacing-house-after-Hurricane The spacial concepts that are in Jaynes123's idea books and what she has designed are polar opposites. And note I said "concepts", not a photo of some kitchen island. A little like me seeing photos of someone riding a unicycle and then thinking I can get right out and do that.
Also, as a statistics major before I went back to do architecture, you can skew those things to read how you want them. The architects who are famous or do houses in very wealthy areas of the country make that "average" go way up. The principle of a firm doing houses in Greenwich, CT or Boca Raton, FL makes a ton more than a guy doing design-build in Topeka, KS.
There was a study that said architects and news reporters had the most desired careers with the least amount of pay.
I only present the data and projections collected by the US Department of Labor.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/architects.htm
Many firms pay tuition and fees toward continuing education requirements for their employees.
It is further reported that architects have a mean average hourly income of $34.88 per hour
and that many work more than 50 hours per week.
Job Outlook, 2010-20 24% (Faster than average)
$34.88 an hour for the typical architect is a pipe dream. Also, most architects are salaried and do not receive pay for any hours over 40 a week, but yes, most of them work 60 or more. Where is this population from? What category of architect...do they own their own firm?
I am telling you from being in the industry that your figures are not accurate on an average scale. Yes, when you take the highest and lowest, you might get an "average" of $34.88. That isn't typical in the least. That would mean that most architects get $90K a year based on $34.88 times 50 times 52. That is LAUGHABLE.
Are there any architects out there that work for regular firms that make $90K a year and think that is average?
Look at it this way:
The architect must work over 50 hours to earn what workers in others professions receive in 40 hours or less.
The lowest 10 percent earned less than $42,860, and the top 10 percent earned more than $119,500.
The median income for all other workers [non architects] was $33,840, for the same time period while it was $72,550
My original point, that I did not get an opportunity to put forth, was that many people who can afford
to purchase non essential services are loathe to pay what seems to be a fair rate, based on the qualifications.
There is a disconnect here and I wonder why?
Honestly what gives designers the right to charge upwards of 100.00 on up per hour? Even trades people who work their butts off don't charge quite near that. Our rough carpenter who builds marvelous cabinetry, woodwork, trim and so forth doesn't charge anyway near that. A little outrageous to charge those prices to pick out furniture, paint and do a layout if you ask me.
I am not an "interior designer", rather a homeowner.
I agree, but want to clear a common misconception.
According to the US Department of Labor, 2010 Median Pay was $46,280 per year or
$22.25 per hour.
Frankly, it has been the attitude of several "interior designers" on Houzz who have soured me on using an
interior designer.
There are many skilled, thoughtful designers on Houzz, that I would want to hire, but they are not in my area,
And I do not want to risk hiring a "designer" such as the ones who have been insulting and personally attack me for my opinions.
Hourly rate is important but so is how the hours are counted. Some people might say that they worked on only one project in an afternoon and therefore bill 4 hours to the client. Some one else may feel that they spent 4 hours working on a project, but were tired and rather unproductive so they'll only bill 1 1/2 or 2 hours because that's what they're comfortable charging for the amount of work produced.
Each designer has the right to charge whatever price they choose and the clients have the right to pick a designer using any criteria they choose. If someone can do in an hour what might take me all day to complete, $100 is not unreasonable.
Exactly the point I wanted to make.
In today's economy, do you believe $20 per hour to be unreasonable to pay for the skilled services of a college graduate to obtain the result you desire??
I own an interior design firm in the Boston area and what you're going through shouldn't be so hard and there's no reason to feel ashamed. Look at all my "BEFORE" portfolio photos. I never judge my clients, my job is to help them create something more beautiful and solve that puzzle for them. I personally wouldn't need you to provide an inspiration object in order to decipher what would appeal to you in design; I can arrive at that through a discussion during our consultation.
Please take a look at my online portfolio on my website and if you like my work call me to discuss your project over the phone and we'll see if we're a good fit for each other. I also have an excellent team of reliable and reasonably priced contractors. I don't mind shopping retail if that's your comfort level with spending as opposed to custom and Boston Design Center. And I have a very long list of happy clients you can call for references, many I've worked with for years on end.
http://www.LisaJensenInteriorDesign.com
PS) And what called my attention to you is the IKAT print fabric...been trying to get one of my clients to do for a few years & they won't. I love IKAT.
As stated, I've never hired a designer but I did have an experience with one in a tile shop. She insisted on steering me towards the $100/sq foot tile. When I told her repeatedly that I had no interest in spending that kind of money for tile, she peered over her glasses and asked, "Well, tell me. What is your price point ?" She asked in such a way that I was supposed to believe that everybody is in there spending $100/sq foot on tile, so what was my problem? I immediately answered her that $15/sq foot seemed on the high end to me, if that helped her at all. Even after I told her that, she kept pushing me towards outrageously expensive tile. And it's not as though that's all they sold in there.
Of course, I left that store, but I did discover later that those particular designers in that particular tile store work on commission, not on salary. So I think those that make you feel like you aren't good enough to be their clients-- my guess is, they're working on commission and really need to push particular items (typically very high end items). You need to find designers who are paid a salary, or a per/hour rate, and are there to help you-- not simply help you buy overpriced items.
space and storage before I embark again. To be honest, I'm
not emotionally able right now to
go through another decorator sear ch, think the universe is telling me
that it is not the right time. Lisa, you're quite far from me. I live in
Metro West.