SFGate

nFORMAL design Wow...$200 an SF, huh? That is interesting to me. We see a lot of that up here, but find out that is because the contractors are hiring a great deal of unskilled laborers. Most architect driven homes start in the $250. It could be a case of location.

Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders Much of the work on Houzz is remodel vs new build and a SF price is pretty meaningless. Kitchens and baths are generally the most expensive square footage in a home. Since remodel is typically about upgrading, a small space done in high end products can be thousands on a SF basis and that really isn't meaningful to anyone else's project.

An addition to an existing home can also run far above a new build on a SF basis since you are not generally creating enough space to average out the costs - for instance, the guys charge us the same amount for digging the foundation for a small space as they do for an average house. They still have to get their equipment to the jobsite, they have to be more careful because of existing lawn, flowerbeds, pavement, buried wires, etc. and it takes almost as much time. When you take that over 400 sf instead of 2000 sf, makes a huge difference.

I also think many contributors don't know the total cost of a project. They only know their piece (say the interior design and furnishings or the cabinets and countertops) but not the cost of the full scope of the project. I know that we participate in local home shows and our clients do not want the cost of their projects disclosed to the public.

AMN As long as it is an option and not a required field, it could be helpful for those who want to use it. The people I know with professional profiles on here are constantly fielding questions from people who have absolutely no clue about cost.

Don't do it like CustomMade.com, where they MAKE you put down a price. That doesn't help the situation either because every project is unique and will cost different for different people at different times.

Maybe allowing pros to select from ranges so they're not stuck having to report that this kitchen cost $41,214.33 to build.

nFORMAL design @Deborah...the issue is that without knowing some sort of cost, a lot of Houzz people have over inflated expectations. We put up images. They see them and put them in Ideabooks. They figure that since THEY are here, then these projects were built for people like them.

The flipside is also true. If you can get a client interested, you might be able to explain budget, why certain items are so expensive, etc. For instance, we have soooo many inquiries about that "Symanski Media Console". "How much?" Now, just think about it. It is SOLID dark walnut and zebrawood...no veneers. The track system is European and hidden. Want to take a guess on the prices? We even gave the client a deal, but it was $4500. If we put that on there, the sticker shock would scare most away...especially when a media console is advertised right next to it for $350. So, we tell everyone that it is a custom piece and price depends on a lot of factors. I've probably told 100 people how much it was in emails/phone calls/etc., and we got one client out of that.

It's a double edged sword for sure.

Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders Understand. We have gotten burned on that several times by trying to use Houzz in order to help a prospective client to communicate what they want. They dropped their teeth when they heard a price to do something similar and the project doesn't move forward.

DeWitt Architects nFORMAL design..I think $4500 is a good deal!

It is a double edged sword and yet one that I discuss in the very first minutes of talking with any new client. I need to know if they are in a realistic range. If not we don't even get to design but stay on budget until it is realistic. The budget does ultimately drive all design. It is just by chance, and client willingness to let us publish, that our HOUZZ projects are under $200sf. All of our $200-$800/sf projects on for closed marketing only.

As a side note I hate the $/sf cost indicator. It is horrible in describing what a house is worth unless it is mass production housing. Many of the questions on HOUZZ are people trying to fix the bad architecture of mass production houses.

evelyn How about using dollar signs as they do for restaurant reviews and only apply them to finishes, not major construction like moving walls or additions? Lower end finishes, cabinets and millwork would rate one $, a mix of high and low finishes would be $$-$$$ and really high end finishes would be $$$$. Also, entries/photos should be always be dated. Questions posted to photos over a couple of months old seldom get replies.

nFORMAL design There is BAD architecture out there somewhere? WHERE? Haha. Some of the questions I get from those in the building industry are priceless. (Not on here...in general.)

I feel your pain, DeWitt! Life's too short for bad architecture or bad beer!

houssaon In America, we are so price driven, that we have driven out skilled labor out of the market. We seem like a bunch of lemmings searching to find the lowest price for something, not caring that the store that sells it doesn't pay its employees for sick days.

I am not in any business to do with Houzz, but I care passionately about well built homes that suit the locale. I care that the builders build according to code. I care that the carpenters, electricians, plumbers and all the other trades do their jobs to the best standards and that they are properly compensated. I respect the intelligence and fortitude required to master these trades.

As a consumer, I don't run from landscaper to landscaper or builder to builder looking for the cheapest quoted price. I want the job well done. So I want a relationship with the company for the long haul. I want to know that they are well respected and competent.

But I think you builders and designers are all making valid points that I can understand about price. Would a price range be helpful? For some things, maybe. It is up to you professionals.

Sigrid I think a general idea of cost might be useful. I see so many design dilemmas where people are asking for a fix on a budget and the responders suggest something that is, in practical terms, a gut rehab. Ask about paint color for your kitchen and you'll get people suggesting you replace your cabinets and appliances. When I asked about painting my large house, I had someone suggest replacing my roof and others second the idea. How many homeowners, realistically, replace a perfectly good roof when they don't need to?

Maybe a price scale would remind people that nothing is free.

DeWitt Architects A bunch of lemmings willing to drive an hour, burning $15 in gas to get $3 off a shirt at an outlet mall!

I also find that more often than not most homeowners are not fit for large renovation or new construction. They are not used to long term projects but rather an off-the-self quickness. This is also why DIY doesn’t work. Most people cannot dedicate the proper time to overcome their lack of skill to get a quality finished project.

With this in mind some of our more recent work is our own investment projects for sale at the end. Five out the seven projects I have on HOUZZ were developed for sale. We can push good design, small housing and any number of other cool things and guess what happens at the end? We sell them for big bucks. It is fun, quick, and way more efficient.

Ironwood Builders DeWitt, how are you getting such low per square foot prices? I am in Sonoma County, 75 miles north of SF and we are over $300 for new construction...with green building codes, water management, site costs (like septic, wells and water systems) fire safe standards, driveways, etc.. Maybe in a tear down and hook up to existing utilities...but PGE wants 2K to look at the project! Maybe I can be competitive in my market...but I don't think I can in Texas. My guys make good wages, have to or it actually costs me more for worker's comp than is reasonable, they have health benefits...because it was the right thing to do...and now it's mandatory (yay, evens the playing field). The pictures don't tell the story, not the whole story, as evidenced by the number of things I just wrote down that have almost nothing to do with the way it looks, only the systems it took to get to the look. People want their stuff to look killer...and come here because they have no clue as to how....

Don't get me started on the totally unrealistic budgets they set up on HGTV! They get most of the expensive stuff donated by the sponsors and don't include those expenses in the budget. I mean come on, a whole house remodel with appliances, cabinets, bathrooms, stone accents and FURNITURE for $65K? Maybe in Georgia..and I don't mean Atlanta, I mean the former Soviet Republic!

It is sometimes hard enough to get my homeowners to allow me to post pictures of their homes on Houzz...there are many concerns about privacy and I have had to disguise locations and names. To get them to allow me to tell the world what they spent? Even a range would be difficult. Maybe the $$$ idea would be OK..but even then it sets the range, right?

Apartment 46 for the Home All such valid and great comments. So glad to have opened these discussions because they are ones we need to be having. I got a consult through Houzz and the client actually asked me, "Do we really need to have a contractor do XYZ, or can we get those guys from the Home Depot parking lot to do it?" I was dumbfounded. I said, "I would never want to be involved with a project that picked up strangers to do electrical work just to save money." This person had two young kids and was talking about cheap electrical?? Amazing. Doing it right is always the best way. There is a time for an IKEA Lack Bookcase (I used one in my daughter's teenage bedroom) and a time for the gorgeous-ness of a custom console. People work so hard to have homes, they SHOULD, in theory, care enough to have them nicely done and decorated. But what do I know?

nFORMAL design @housson...I WANT YOU! As a client. Haha.

@DeWitt...the fact is that most famous architects got started doing a project for family/friends that had money. I have thought about doing my own builds and then selling...letting good architecture/design drive the project. Unfortunately, this market has killed any hopes of getting a decent profit out that. It also doesn't help that I can't fund the project. Most banks aren't going to give us a loan for new construction. So...while we do really cool furniture, we are out there waiting for that "one" project that will get us on the map!

Yes...we live in a self-serve, off-the-shelf society. Some things...it doesn't bother me. For instance, I design and build smokers (don't start Peter...YES, Texas barbecue! Haha). Now, I live in an area where there seem to be a lot of trendy, "organic", grass-fed, farm-to-table consumers. I had a client/friend ask me if I would smoke some pork shoulders for a visiting brother's birthday party. I told her "sure". She asked, "Do you use organic, free-range pork?" I said, "No, but I'll smoke anything you buy." Anyway, I went t school in Texas but also lived in NC for 15 years. To me...a pork shoulder is the size of a small watermelon. Figuring I couldn't use a small smoker, I brought my big one from a friend's house in the burbs, fired it up, added a bunch of other stuff to fill it us and sold that to friends, and here comes my client...with two pork shoulders the size of small cantaloupes. I could have easily used my small smoker.

That's fine...no harm. However, these things were super expensive, and in the end, they were pretty tough and didn't have much flavor at all. Those are a myriad of reasons why it wouldn't bother me that the majority of people get "supermarket" meat. When the other stuff gets as tender, tasty and affordable (or relatively so) as the standard stuff, then it makes sense to switch over.

In that vein, I understand people going low cost. BUT, the higher cost isn't getting you any benefit but a good conscience. In our industry, lower cost/budget/etc. usually means lesser quality. Kohler/Delta/Moen, etc. doesn't help by making a lower quality alternative that they sell at the big box stores. Go to the Kohler store at the Merchandise Mart and tell me that their $800 (list) faucet is the same as the one at HD. Feel it...use it. Not even close. There is a reason that the expensive ones have much longer warranties, etc.

To go back to my auto analogy, "Why do I need to spend the money on a decent car when I can just put rims and a Ferrari logo on my beater."

qbndds It is still in my opinion a good idea to give viewers at least a "range" of cost estimates for their information let them figure out who they want to use custom vs. prefab etc. If a consumer doesn't understand the reason for the difference in price between a Kohler fixture and a Hansgrohe for example they are going to look at them both as "just faucets" as in any other aspect of life and consumerism some people get it some don't whether you are in the upper echelon of architecture/design or an "Ikea groupy" there is room enough for everyone!

jcloot Most folks commenting, thus far, seem to be in the business. I'm the lay person here and vote no or keep it optional using Evelyn's reco of $-$$$$. Region, product selection, scale, and everything else varies too much it will cause more confusion and frustration non in-the-business people. For example, I watch HGTV and repeatedly see entire homes redone with load baring walls coming down and footprints completely changed, then rebuilt with beautiful furnishing all on a budget of $50K. It's unrealistic - or seems to be when I'm pricing and repricing to get just my kitchen for the same amount and have yet to sign the dotted line (meaning I haven't gotten the prices I want...)

feeny Hmm. I use Houzz just for inspiration and education, not for actual reproduction of the spaces shown. I want to see what different kinds of backsplashes look like with particular styles and colors of cabinets, or what colors palettes I might not have considered for living rooms. So for me the prices are pretty much irrelevant.

nFORMAL design @jcloot...the issue is that the prices you are used to seeing are unrealistic to begin with. All those factors should be involved. For instance, maybe it should be like Redfin, etc., there could be a sq. ft. price on a house, and then there could be some link to what houses in the area cost to build/remodel per square foot as well. I agree...a rural house in North Carolina isn't going to cost as much per square foot as one in Northern California.

@qbndds...the difference between Hansgrohe and Grohe/Kohler is that Grohe/Kohler produce different levels of finishes and quality of components. People see a Grohe faucet at HD, etc., then they assume they are getting the same quality as the one I'd specify from Hydrology here in Chicago at 2 to 3 times the price. They aren't the same faucet.

It is akin to a Mercedes C-class. Why would anyone buy an E-class if the C-class is the same quality, etc., for a much less price? The difference is that people in the auto industry have others there to explain the pluses and minuses of each level.

qbndds nFORMALdesign:
You are preaching to the choir! In my present remodel Hansgrohe is the "car" of choice!

nFORMAL design Here is a good example. One poster wanted advice (basically a free design layout) of a entire living area that was huge. He had NO idea what he wanted, but he put some things he'd like to have--siting area on one side and the living area on the other. He ended the "Design Dilemma" with "this is NOT an unlimited budget." Actually the wording was rearranged that you had to read it twice to find out he was saying it is a limited budget.

WHAT does the "Budget is NOT unlimited" mean? It means...find a bunch of cools things that are cheap for me, tell me where to put them, and also give me a list of part numbers, etc.

I think it is good to have expectations and goals. However, I think we owe the homeowners AND professionals both on there to manage the expectations. Blindly giving someone cool images of awesome spaces without them understanding how much those spaces will cost, just compounds the problems (not having the images on the site...but specifically posting them in a discussion for design dilemmas). We had a potential client call us about a $4500 console with a budget of between $500 and $800. Why? Because someone on Houzz suggested it because it fit the style that the person wanted.

Architectrunnerguy I voted to have the optional cost thingy.

But beyond that I think Houzz, in their "featured projects" should now and again provide costs.

Sure costs are regarded as proprietery by most owners and that's probably as it should be but as a reader of Fine Homebuilding magazine going back to the '80's they provide project costs on a routine basis. There I'm figuring the editor does it by maybe getting 30 quality projects come across his desk with maybe one providing the costs but that's all an editor really needs to keep the readership aware of costs....you know "This addition (or house) cost XXXX total or YYYY per SF".

The more the lay person is educated about costs the better off we all are and what better place to start then at these building sites.

Currently here at Houzz the focus on costs is zero.

Judy M My husband and I have made many upgrades over the years to our very average Garrison Colonial built in 1981. Our home, even though very average was built with solid wood raised panel doors.

Today, you can't even get a custom made solid wood door without spending a huge amount of money. In the average house, will you get that money back? No way. As long as there is a reasonably good condtion, functioning door a buyer is happy.

When the big box home improvement stores opened, like everyone else, we went. We quickly learned what was mentioned above. The name on the box might say Moen or Kohler but it is NOT built the same.
Once we realized this, we stopped buying most items there.

Now, we utilize our local plumbing store, lighting store and unfortunately have to drive a good distance to buy from a good lumber/hardware store. Now, we also ask any contractor we use where THEY buy goods they might be supplying as part of the job.

BUT, in the "average" home market paying for all these better grade items will never get me a decent return on the money spent, as I have now overpriced my home for the neighborhood. All to make our home something different from the average cookie cutter subdivision home.

Let's face it, everyone cannot afford to own a wonderful custom built home that has quality materials and good workmanship, even if they scale down and avoid the McMansion. So if we upgrade our home with very good materials we run a big risk of not getting a good return in our investment.

In the average home market, the opposite is often true,( depending on the market where they live) the people that do not make any improvements to their home, often get the greatest return.
This might not be true everywhere, but it has certainly been true where I live.
Had I not invested in more than just redecorating, my home would be worth 4 x what I paid.

I am not bitter that I spent the money, this is my home, we love it, we enjoy it.

I live in the Northeast and my son is looking to buy a new home. We recently went with him to a Toll Brothers model home. Of course it was huge and decorated to the nines. Looked great. We also went into one of their homes, not decorated and with few "options" built in.
In a house that cost over a half million dollars, they used cabinets that had center stiles. I was appalled. So what is the average homebuyer to do?

Having a home with the "lastest style" that everyone seems to crave today is nearly impossible to keep up with as by the time you have your new bathroom/kitchen etc installed, a "new" thing is now "in". I don't think that was as true years ago.

I agree with HGTV giving unreasonable expectations about budget. How can a completely unfinished basement be turned into a rental apartment for $35,000 and offer quartz counters, tile backsplash, undercabinet lighting, recessed lighting, appliances and tiled bathrooms?

Haha, and my favorite, the show where the whole house is remodeled in four weeks!

Kaplan Architects, AIA I agree with Ironwood Builders. Regional costs can vary widely across the country. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area costs per square foot are quite high due to a multitude of contributing factors. Mostly regulatory issues are the biggest contributors to cost. I haven't seen construction under $300 per square foot in quite awhile. I would say this is true for both new and remodeled spaces.

Architectrunnerguy @Judy M...watched Hometime once where they put in a new ceramic tile floor in the kitchen and then had a formal dinner party there THAT NIGHT.

Or the episode from This Old House where Norm starts trimming a window and the tree one can see outside through the glass is crimson red.......when he's done the tree has NO leaves. But Norm is still wearing the same flannel shirt!!!

Bill Fry Construction - Wm. H. Fry Const. Co. Does Houzz want to become a Zillow wannabe??? I hope not!

Gabriela Hebert, director of communications for Houzz, tells GeekWire that Zillow’s new service is a “complete knock off.”
http://www.geekwire.com/2013/home-remodeling-startup-houzz-responds-zillow-digs-complete-knock-off/

and WSJ weighs in with a big nod to Houzz:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324445904578286010485329662.html

From a photo, it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between bespoke and cheap or somewhere in between. I hope that Houzz can stay as close to their roots with "inspiration."

:) Rhoda

jcloot I agree with @feeny - Houzz is a great place for inspiration and education.

Apartment 46 for the Home I had to look on Zillow once to see my client's new home. Then it started stalking my every online move. Horrible! Like some weird unwanted boyfriend. :) Though I initially posted the advice question in pro-to-pro, it is good to see responsible homeowners weighing in. Totally true that you're never, ever going to get your money out of your Hansgrohe faucet but if you aren't trying to flip, then you should care. In the pics on my portfolio, though they look like totally basic homes, SO much in them was done by me. Refinished, painted, repaired, upholstered, sewn, whatever. I'm not a point-and-direct kind of designer, I'm a DIY designer to a point (see my comment about electrical). If a client wants a faux distressed finished, I'm going to show them how to do it right, so it doesn't look like the strangeness I see constantly. I've had to "re-faux" so many pieces it makes me crazy. Michael's craft store needs to give out permits to people after they've taken proper classes. :) At any rate, I'm so happy to be in the company of great professionals that care!

Judy M I look at some of the questions and people ask "where can I buy this cabinet?" and it seems obvious to me, it is a custom cabinet, but the person asking the question recognizes that it is a nice cabinet and hope they can just be told the magic store that they can find this item. I shake my head, but then I fall prey, when I saw several mosaic tiles that I loved and wanted to use in my bathroom remodel.

I sourced them thinking I don't have a very large bathroom so maybe it's do-able even tho' I'm sure they are pricey. I get a reply that the tiles are $175 a sq ft, so almost $10,000 just for the tile, plus install, for one small part of the entire project. I bought marble basketweave and called it a day.

Maybe, we all want to dream a little. The budget (or our husbands) bring us back to reality.

Salif Buy only well made, timeless pieces ans avoid such problems.

nFORMAL design Judy...I use your entire line of reasoning everyday in trying to educated people about their homes. Unfortunately, I disagree with most of it, but read on and you'll understand where I'm coming from. I think, in essence, you disagree with it, too...thus you are doing what makes you feel good.

First, most Americans buy places they can't afford and don't need. Also, you talk of solid wood doors. To be honest, being solid wood, etc., is less important to me than craftmanship and durability/beauty. Meaning...I'm not against engineered lumber to save our forests, and some of that wonderful technology has designed some very cool stuff. Let's use it!

Robert Sennett a Sociologist at NYU (at the time) says that we have an "image reportoire". Meaning that if I said I am "building my house" every person would have an image of what a house is, and in the US, they are all very similar and vastly different images from Europe, S.A., Japan, etc. The issue is getting someone to step outside the box.

That beings said, our mentality as a homeowner needs to change the way the rest of the market has changed over the years. THIS is where I disagree with the education of America in regard to the housing market. My generation was probably the last true one (I'm 43) to be told that their homes were to be a big investment and that is where you put your money...it was "solid". Not now...but the same mentality still exists even though the market is totally different now.

The same people that won't spend to redo or buy a new home because "I won't make my money back." are the EXACT same people who will go out and buy a new convertible that they will instantly lose money on (and never make back) because why, "That's what I want...and I want to enjoy it."

Duh!

Don't you want to enjoy your spaces, too? If you are big cook, why won't you remodel your kitchen to have that great layout and stove you always wanted? You might not get all your money back, but YOU'LL ENJOY IT! You'll make a damned sight more percentage back on it than you will that new car when you trade it in or sell it.

I think we need to get the mindset of people out of the old idea that you shouldn't spend money on a place if you aren't going to see all of it return. Those days are gone. Life is short...enjoy your spaces as much as you enjoy your other "things". When you bought that new LED 60" television for $3K when it came out, you didn't think, "Wow...I don't know if I should buy this because I won't get my money back on it in a year."

tcufrog Perhaps instead of giving a price range Houzz could do a series of ideabooks that explain why things cost what they cost. For example, they could show three similar consoles at vastly different prices such as one from Target, one from Pottery Barn and one that's custom. They would then zero on the differences in the product that affect their price.

They could also do idea books that go into why certain renovation or building projects cost more than others. For example, what exactly goes into doing something like removing a load bearing wall. I'd like to learn about the time, materials, and labor involved in such a process. Such idea books would be really helpful for homeowners debating whether or not to take on such a remodeling project. HGTV talks about it being difficult and expensive but then show it being done in the blink of an eye.

Curb Appeal Renovations Even if you put $ to $$$$, it may scare someone off that could potentially be a client once they understand the process and why a bath, kitchen or home costs as much as it does. For example, we had a client last year that started out with a budget of $150K, they ended up spending almost $400K on the renovation of their home.

True, it could possibly weed out those that wouldn't be your clients to begin with, but wouldn't you like that opportunity to weed them out first? At least to have the opportunity to make them into a possible referral for you, even if they don't use you? We have had prospects do that...they couldn't "afford" us, but referred us to someone else that turned into a client!

And what about the disparity in pricing? Just in Texas our labor is different here in the DFW area than it is in El Paso. And to do a job in San Francisco or NYC is going to be much more expensive than Mobile, AL.

Personally, who we need to address is HGTV aka REMODELING PORN. They've made all the homeowners think remodeling is done in a week for a dime! With no dust, dirt or any hidden conditions and everyone is always happy!!!

Interiors International, Inc. I agree with so many of the professionals above on this post. Most discussions that I have posted my advise are for people have very limited budgets. Obviously the pictures everyone puts in there idea book are from extremely high-end homes. If people actually think they can get one of these idea rooms for under or near the cost of Ikea they need a reality check. I look at the discussion dilemmas as how can we as professional help give creative solutions within their realistic budgets.

nFORMAL design Interiors International...I totally concur. However, I also think there needs to be more education so that people can have REALISTIC budgets.

For instance...I am a homebrewer. For those that you who don't drink, etc., then this doesn't relate very well, but there are people in the forum I frequent that spend thousands upon thousands for the newest brewing gadgets and gear. These are similar people as those who are asking for advice on here(I've seen the houses in the background photos of their "nano-breweries".) Their brewing systems could easily pay for a small kitchen/bath remodel with quality components.

The point is that people will spend a ton of money on "toys" because they have always been told that you shouldn't spend money on housing projects that you won't recover. To them a wide screen television is more important than a piece of furniture that will eventually be a family heirloom. The antiques of the present were a lot of times furniture of the common person in the day. I fear that except for the antiques that we buy now, there will be no antiques from our generation.

I just think that people should look at their housing budgets (for upgrades, remodels, etc.) and adjust accordingly to the other things in their lives that they want to enjoy.

Architectrunnerguy @Interiors International...I couldn't agree more. I'm fairly new here but it appeared to me from the outset that there's a strong dissconnect between the budgets put forth by Houzz posters (ie: "we're on a budget" like who isnt!!!) and what's in their idea books.

Sure, some may call Houzz "inspiration" but at the end of the day we're building stuff. Stuff that costs money.

Susan Mills Design Houzz by definition: from their own words.

The largest collection of interior design and decorating ideas on the Internet, including kitchens and bathrooms. Over 1000000 inspiring photos and 90000 idea ...

Another description;

Jan 29, 2013 – Called the "Wikipedia of interior and exterior design" by CNN, Houzz has the largest database of home design ideas on the net.

Houzz is for inspiration and ideas, lets keep it that way!

curacaoblue Houzz is just for ideas. I think that the people who are generally ignorant about price just tend to stand out more than others..

Judy M nformal, Ha, you know me! That is exactly what we have done,( we remodeled to suit us) but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt a bit. My husband loves to cook (and I like to eat) so when we re did the kitchen (again) we added what we wanted within the parameters our current space would allow. And we do love it.

Some things tho' are very annoying today. In my last kitchen, I did not have one repair to my refrigerator in over 18 years and none to my slide in stove. In my "new" now eight year old kitchen, I have had my high end built in combo wall oven microwave repaired twice. The light switch in my subzero is finicky lately, going on and off for no reason. Both also have many new features that my old appliances did not have, such as convection and digital temp control.

AND...... wait for it...... I have a convertible!!! Used only for summer,it's a third car and an older model.

But you have given me another reason to be even more joyful about our home. It's not perfect, but we like it! Hopefully, the next owner will enjoy some of the changes we've made.

apple_pie_order I agree there's a strong disconnect between people's ideabooks and their budgets. But to be fair to those who post questions, the photos we can post to the houzz ideabook come from this site, and, by definition, most of the featured photos are professionally photographed expensive pieces of work. There are extremely few photos of jobs in the "middle class" budget category. A search of the photos with the string "budget kitchen" turned up 88 entries. That's out of 297,500 kitchen photos.

The median annual income for a four person family in my area (in the US) is $49K. I'll bet that a significant fraction of the professionally photographed jobs featured in houzz exceed the local median annual income by a factor of 2 or more.

It would help those responding to posts in the "design dilemma" category if the original poster stated a budget, but most people simply don't, either because they don't know or they choose not to. But there's no reason why a person shouldn't save an image of a Henredon sofa to their ideabook when all they can afford is Ikea.

Judy M Sweet noor,
Try putting a new 15 to 18 inch deep mattress on an old headboard, they used to make the headboard lower to accommodate the 9 inch mattresses. Same goes for sofas and chairs, seat height got higher, too. Making it harder to say it's worth it to reupholster them.

even toilets and vanities are higher now!

Try fitting a flat screen TV into the old well made Armoire of yesteryear. Even some of my recessed lights look obsolete. {Sigh}

nFORMAL design Judy...I say it only hurts a bit because our notion of the "payback" or "investment". If you buy the car new or the television new, people don't seem to be in as much "agony" as they are over the cost of remodeling or building. My friends say it all the time..."I can't believe I spent "X" amount on this kitchen." Yet they pour themselves a drink, walk into the living room and proceed to say, "DUDE...check this system out? The television is so big and seemingly real...I feel like I'm IN THE GAME!" Where is the complaint about the hit to the wallet that the huge television, sound system, speaker retrofit and everything else cost? When Devin Hester (Chicago Bears player) runs a kick return back and the guy is celebrating, the comment is more than likely, "Man...this system was worth EVERY PENNY." (Yeah...and that system is going to get you 25% ROI in two years. if you are LUCKY! Haha)

My complaint isn't the free advice or the Ideabooks, etc. I just think there needs to be a little more education and restraint on behalf of fellow pros. I'm guilty of it, too, I'll give someone advice because I want to see good architecture/design out there in the world. However, there needs to be a little more Howard Roark mentality (Fountainhead main character). That is just MY opinion.

As a former statistics major, I will say that I know at least 10 people who were/are clients or potential clients that only had a piece of furniture made by us when they really wanted a room redone. I would say that out of those 10 potential architecture/interiors clients, at least 9 of them said, "I REALLY hate my "X" (kitchen, bath, deck, etc.), but I'm am not going to redo it because I won't get my money back." If they looked at the space like a "toy" or a anything else they would spend money on just to get enjoyment out of it, I bet the decision would have been a whole lot different.

n247080 oh my gosh. I'm not made of money, but I really can't imagine making effective, significant changes for anything without investing at least $500.00 and probably more like $1,000.00 Evem of you're making small changes, my theory is it's better to live without and then spend the extra money on something good/high quality that will last for a good chunck of time.

$300.00? You're squacking at $300.00? You're not very serious about making significant change then. I'm not a professional. I'm just an average, small homeowner with a very middle class income. Come on....get serious!

HOUZZ is a great resource. I love it. There is SO much that you can get for free in terms of just reading other peoples adventures in change or just viewing photos of successes.

Wow. i can't believe you're put off by $300.00 when it comes to your home.

Linda One of the problems with showing project costs is what counts as a "project" cost? If you start remodeling your kitchen and find that much of the plumbing in the house needs replaced, is that a kitchen cost? You probably wouldn't have replaced your main drain if you hadn't try to connect the new basement bathroom plumbing to the drain, so do you call that $5,000 to $10,000 a cost of finishing out the basement? IF you put on an addition and replace your existing furnace since it can't handle the new load, how do you apportion the cost to existing space versus new space?

It is a difficult distinction between ordinary expected cost of owning a home and the cost of redoing a perfectly functioning space simply because its appearance is not what is desired. There's a reason for the entire subspecies known as cost accountants.

One of my pet peeves is people who say "we're on a budget" when they really mean that they're on a shoestring budget. Budget simply means amount of money allocated for a project, without distinction of how that amount compares with the amount other people allocate for their projects. A budget of $10K for a powder room remodel is still a budget, albeit a generous budget

Judy M Agreed! My home is my TOY, don't care much about TV's, I have a regular flat screen type. My husband and I honestly get enjoyment being in an environment that is functional and pretty.

DeWitt Architects Wow what great discussion!

I agree that owners are way too focused on resale cost. I think that is a funny concept since the use of it prior to moving and that has lots of value. My personal renovations happen when we purchase a house to get maximum use out of it and also to let appreciation catch up with our renovation cost. What I am finding out it that people want bold designs but do not want to take the risk themselves.

This is the niche we are filling with our own investment houses. Look at this image of the green backsplash. I would be hard to find a client to put this in but we sold this house with it no problem along with many other color design features that people would say you won’t get out of a house.




I have yet to have any of my designs, no matter how bold, sell for less than the money put in but then again most of my designs we were in desirable locations and not over neighborhood average cost. A desirable location is another key of home value that is not represented in the HOUZZ pictures.

nFORMAL design Wow...and I totally "flew right past it". I was so busy defending that I didn't really think about it.

@Susan, curacaoblue, etc. I contend that Houzz sticks to what it claims to be, and to quote Susan/Houzz, "The largest collection of interior design and decorating ideas on the Internet, including kitchens and bathrooms. Over 1000000 inspiring photos and 90000 idea ..."

Everyone wants Houzz to be "INSPIRATIONS" and "IDEAS". If you think about that long and hard, then there would really only be photos and Ideabooks--and we'll include the Ideabooks that are articles. This discussion would be a moot point because it would be like "Pinterest"...if you are keeping it to be JUST about the inspiration and the idea, then that doesn't equate to advice. When one says they were "inspired"...that is totally different than someone saying they were "advised". Am I wrong? If it is just about inspiration and ideas, there would be no discussion forum to give advice on.

Seriously, think about it. If Houzz was only about those two things, then there wouldn't be a need for discussions or professionals to have a professional profile. It would just be random people posting images from the web that they like and others, grabbing them and putting them in "Ideabooks" to save for the future. Then there would be tons of advertisements to afford server space (Like Facebook, etc.) instead of hardly any advertisements and professionals paying to be "sponsored".

If it is just about inspiration and ideas, lets keep it that way. If, however, it is what Houzz explained to me and my colleagues that it is a place for homeowners, remodelers, etc., to connect with professionals, then lets design the sight around that and inform the public what it is. Let's not tell the professionals one thing in order to sell spots on the site and then tell the general public the complete opposite.

nFORMAL design DeWitt...LOVE that kitchen! Good call.

Margaret Phillips As a person who has owned homes in several states, I think the pricing would not be realistic. A vendor in NY has to pay insurance, light bill, rent or mortgage, taxes, permit fees, among many many other things. ALL those fees are drastically less in NC where I live now. All of those expenses are just a mere fraction of what they are there. My Mother's house in NY is worth $700,000 the same house and details be $150,000 in my area and cheaper if you live further away from a major city like me. The costs of doing business in different areas varies so much it boggle the mind. I can have a master painter, working for a major reputable painting company, who has been painting houses for 25 years come paint my whole house for pennies on the dollar, compared to NY,CT, CA, MA. And many other places. I can also get upholsterers, master wood craftsmen electricians, for a fraction of the high dollar areas. I also can buy many products cheaper simply the store does not have a such a big markup. ........I can custom build a house with high end craftsmen working from top to bottom for an 8th of what costs in high dollar areas. My house is newer, nicer and much more updated with a lot more than double the size of my Mother's house in NY, my property taxes are $897 a year, my Mother's are $16,000 a year. ...I just don't think pricing is the same across the country. True that XYZ product has a fixed price across the country but many things don't.

judyg Maybe we need a form to post the dilemma. :>)

My Dilemma is:

My Question is:

My Budget is:

My Location is:

My friend's daughter just moved to North Carolina to buy a house she could never afford here. She got a 3 bedroom, 3 bath, family room, den, dining room, screened in porch, AC, two car garage for $289,999.00. She couldn't buy a piece of land here for that price. That same house, in just an o k neighborhood here, would cost around $600.000. Start adding other wishes, for instance good school system, close to the City, low crime rate, etc. and that $600,000.00 house is now $1.4.

So, how could a cost option be provided unless done strictly by location?

When we built our house, the price given to us by our builder, with an allowance included, was $350.00 a sq foot. A good deal for his quality of work. But, I didn't stay within that allowance and the house wound up costing $65,000.00 more than the quote. Not his fault, it was my choices that upped the bill.

Peter, I don't know how you good builders stay within your quote. It must be so hard for you to do.

As for price comps on items, a lot of the time you can simply go to "products", type in, for instance, gas stove, and there are lots and lots of choices, at different price points.

I think houzz is doing a good job, considering its members live all over the world, have different incomes and different needs. If you want to get serious about a purchase/project, start in your own town. Give local businesses a chance to bid. As a local sign here says" Keep Cape Cod Green, Bring Money".

Judy M DeWitt, you are right. I would not put that in my home BUT i would buy the house. I would buy it because it appeals to me and it's good design. Even people that have such a difficult time decorating their own home, can recognize good design ( hence model homes).

I would not choose to put it in (given the choice) because like many people, we feel going neutral is a safer (and longer lasting) option.

My dream, when it is time for me to move, is to find a home that someone with taste that appeals to me, has just re done and now sadly has to move on.

I have a feeling instead that it will be a complete fixer instead. I'm ok with that.

nFORMAL design Peter...I'd put that in my place. In fact, move that to Chicago, charge the same price per sq. ft., and I'm there! I don't even need to feel bad about not designing my own space! Haha.

DeWitt Architects I agree that cost is regional but I don't think it is so complex as to not be of value to Houzz users. Houzz users are regionally located and the Houzz setup is regional. Each project is regionally/city listed and so cost would match up. I think there are many Houzz users who are sophisticated enough to understand the need to check in a specific region. Another idea is to only allow cost searches to be restricted to a single region to eliminate the differences.

Although interesting, I don’t have need to understand why other regions are more or less expensive than the ones I have projects in.

Susan Mills Design Good point Margaret, after all Houzz is a global site.

@nFormal, you said earlier that their needs to be more education and restraint on behalf of the pros. Who will determine who qualifies to be a pro? I love that on this site, everyone gets to throw their two cents in. I have learned a thing or two after all my years dedicated to design, from posters not deemed a pro, or even in the business.

Connection is what makes a media site work, recognizing who we like to "follow ", it may not be about design at all, it may be that we appreciate their humouress approach to life and the challenges it presents to us, not just in design but how we choose the design, create the design and use the design.

When someone sees something in an idea book that they like, quite often it takes discussion for them to understand why. I enjoy the idea books, the work uploaded by my peers, the ability to source out new products, but I enjoy the discussions the most.

I think Houzz is working very well as it is. As it grows as it must, I for one hope they keep this format. Pros, cons and all.

cjohnston This is a great discussion! Ultimately, I think this is a decision for the professionals to decide. You, the professionals, should feel free to provide how much information (or how little) as you want about your projects...and not be criticized in any way for it.

That said, someone said that there is no focus on cost at Houzz. I respectfully disagree. The ability to "tag" certain elements can help inform us laypeople about the cost of your project. Seeing the term "custom" is another hint.

Personally, I do not think we need to assign costs or dollar ranges to the projects here. I'm just not sure what it achieves. There are too many variables in any given project. Besides, a project might cost $$$$ because the homeowner wanted to spend $$$$. Working with a talented professional, couldn't a similar look be achieved with a $$ budget?

nFORMAL design @Susan...that is all fine and dandy, and I agree with you on most of it. I wouldn't have been reintroduced to Peter's work if not for this site.

However, I'm not asking for Peter's, your, or any other persons advice on here with the assumption that it is a "free" site for "ideas" only. Are you a sponsored professional? If not, then that proves my point.

Do you, Susan, think all of the sponsored professionals are on here just for the "greater good"? We aren't in an egalitarian site. I highly doubt the sponsored professional is thinking, "I'm paying to advertise on here so that the guy who decided to build his house himself without regard to permits, etc., can get free advice on FF&E from my fellow colleagues." Call me crazy, but somehow, I doubt that is the mindset of the sponsored professional paying bucks to be on the front page of the search.

My complaint, as I've said for eons, is that if this actually IS a social networking site to have fun and talk about your new planter project, etc., and to get free advice from all the professionals, share recipes, give out great golf locations, then that's fine. BUT, don't solicit professionals to pay to be front and center on the site with the notion that they are there to connect with people needing work who may hire them.

THAT is my beef. If Houzz wants it to be a laissez-faire free for all site, then do it. They shouldn't sell it to pros as something totally different. The format is in it's present state in order for the professionals to showcase work in hopes to get clients. I hate for you, or anyone else, to think otherwise, but if it weren't, the site would be laid out totally different, and the margins would be full of sponsors and ads.

FOLKS...HOUZZ HAS TO MAKE MONEY to keep the site going. If they don't have ads crammed into the entire site, then where does the money come from? Professionals pay for exposure in hopes to gain clients. Period.

Susan, you will say..."You don't have to pay." I agree...and I didn't. But, Houzz shouldn't lay out it to the prospective contractor, etc., that this is where he is going to sell his business and get clients if that really isn't the nature of the beast...or if it isn't what Houzz is telling the homeowners, news, media, etc.

DeWitt Architects Just to clarify I was not with saying all projects must include cost but rather it could be included as an option. Also my $/sf is for construction only, no land cost. I just added up the house with the green tile shown above in Austin. 2300sf at $161/sf was our construction cost including my design fee. I know that will hurt some of you in more expensive areas and I am sorry.

I also love Houzz and want to to be even better. The end product of how Houzz is used by pros and owners is the key to its long term success.

I am getting too heavy...time for another glass of wine! Keep up the good discussion.

Linda Different locales have different prices for labor, but basic material charges are the same. That's what makes it so difficult for me to make a decent profit - my cost for a basic faucet or a stick of copper pipe doesnt vary much from that paid in Downtown Chicago, or the Northshore or the Northeast US. But, they can get $200+ per sq foot when I would be thrilled to get half that amount.

Right now, I have a house on the market for $72.50/sq foot. That's totally rehabbed with new plumbing, new electrical , new high efficiency furnace/H20 heater, new roof, gutters, paint, etc. etc. Plus, it has vintage woodwork, reclaimed oak floors, 4 bedrooms, 2 and 1/2 baths. It is good quality workmanship and nice materials - no thermofoil cabinets, no vinyl, no acrylic tub surrounds - it is 9" oak baseboards, Swanstone shower surround, ceramic tile shower. Does it really matter what the budget was?

Bottom line is I don't make a profit unless I sell a house for more money than I put in. I'm limited in the amount available for a project because my local market is so low compared to rehab costs. So, all I can do with Houzz is look at the pretty pictures and try to translate some ideas into something that fits into my ultra-low rehab budget - IKEA is too expensive for me to make money!

Susan Mills Design NFormal, I no longer know when you are questioning me or Houzz. I do not speak for Houzz. I also joined in this discussion regarding the question put forth by DeWitt Architects. Enjoy your discussion, I'm off for the evening.

nFORMAL design Not to sound like a jerk, but buying a house to flip in order to make money in this economy is almost impossible. You make money by doing all the work yourself. I had a friend who wanted to do a speculative home (way outside the box) with me, but then he got greedy/jealous that I would get more money from construction than he would (and I would be doing much more work). His 'scope" changed, and he wanted us to hire out all the work. My response was, "Where do you think we will get any profit from that?" We wouldn't . The only flippers that make money are in areas that are now becoming popular, which once had sketchy neighborhoods. Think Brooklyn...Wicker Park (not now, but when it was turning), etc. People made 10 times their investment in 2007. The price of materials wasn't THAT much different in 2000, but if they tried to sell the house then, they would have lost money.

The only real way, today, to make money redoing houses is to buy cheap places, fixtures, etc., hire cheap labor, and knock it out as fast as possible. Is it very ethical...not really, but you can make money. It is that, or do the work yourself and pay yourself a decent wage to do the work. Either way, you probably aren't going to "get rich quick".

nFORMAL design One last tidbit and I'm done.

This will strike Peter closer to home, but I first want to say, that after looking at Peter's work, his clients are getting a STEAL--classy, simple, understated and well designed. KUDOS!

In that vein, he is on here giving free advice and he might not admit, but I'm sure there is part of him that hopes he gets a client for his efforts.

To put that in perspective, there is a world famous architect in Peter's locale that does very good regional vernacular styled architecture. I'm sure he knows who I'm talking about, but I would guess that you couldn't get a residence from them for under $350 to $500 a SF in the same area that Peter (DeWitt Architects) produces wonderfully designed spaces for $200 a SF or less.

In order to prove my point, I searched for the firm. They have two listings on Houzz...one with four photos, no reviews, and no discussions. The other one has much less info. They aren't on here giving wonderful advice and having people put their designs in the Ideabooks for inspiration. WHY? I doubt I'd say that the firm is too "snobby" to do it, but in reality, they are too busy. They probably have a waiting list of clients willing to pay top dollar to get them to design their buildings/spaces, etc.

They have an already established clientele, and I'm sure they feel it would be throwing money out the window by "wasting time" on Houzz to create a decent profile and image and be in these discussions. I'm sure they feel that they don't NEED to be here.

That, as evidence, supports my point that Houzz tells professionals this is a potential client cache. They say, "Pay or be active and you'll move up and get better exposure." We do one or the other and sometimes both. Therefore, it is hard to swallow when people want to make the site about NOT fostering homeowner-professional connections and just about giving away free advice when we were originally told it was totally different.

Judy M Not to mention possible carrying costs and realtor fees, unless your also a realtor.

nFORMAL design Oh...and about the above "Famous Firm" I used. Three Houzz contributors used them in articles and the firm isn't even active on the site. They are getting press without doing anything...because they are already famous and people know about them.

qbndds I follow everyone's rationale for their own viewpoint. I am a dentist by trade and a frustrated architect/designer by desire I get patients all day long wanting a "Hollywood Smile" for $200, $1000 even $10,000 sometimes will not do it! It just doesn't work that way! They may find a dentist to undercut my prices but they are rarely happy and I can't tell you how many patients I have coming back to me to re-do less than stellar work. No doubt you designers and architects have the same experiences. We all lose clients because "it is too expensive" for them. In some circumstances a suit off the rack will do just as well as one custom made but at the end of the day although they are both suits they are apples and oranges. A good suit will last years as does good dental work or good materials used in home design. At the end of the day we have to be comfortable with what we charge vs. what we deliver the market will take care of us either way. We charge too much for what we deliver our clients will go elsewhere. We charge too little WE go elsewhere when we go out of business. The way we treat our clients the quality of work we do and materials we use will speak for themselves. Word of mouth etc. etc. will either drive clients to our door or to your competitors we just need to know in our heart if a client went somewhere else they had unrealistic expectations or they received a different product. Having said that I think Houzz is a website that delivers "inspirations and ideas" but it should help to educate the public that "lofty ideas and inspirations" come with just respective costs. My vote still goes to the "Show them what it costs TEAM" I concur with the comment about the HGTV shows with unrealistic budgets they do more to fuel the public's misconception about what good design and remodels cost than to provide realistic clients for all of you in this field.

calikym I would like to say, from the customer perspective - i found houzz doing an Internet search & have purchased several items as a direct result of houzz. My list so far: a resin bathtub, a charging station, and a couch. Also, I will be meeting with Stone Source in LA tomorrow as a direct result of an architect's feedback to me on houzz (I queried where he purchased the marble tiles and countertop and he provided the source). I have many more items to purchase still including my master bedroom furniture, carpet, vanity, artwork, pillows, linens, etc. From my perspective, as a customer looking for a whole house semi-remodel and a complete master bathroom remodel for a $1M home and a $75K budget, and having posted several times, I have not had a single interior designer pursue me for work. I really do think that is what is missing. Somehow, we the clients, need the ability to get a designer on board for a virtual design plan and post befores and afters. Maybe a forum for paying customers and their clients for with real time updates. With so much software/apps available, and Skype, so much of this can be done without face to face contact. For example, I could have a meeting in my master bathroom via Skype with my contractor present (he does many kitchen and bathroom remodels in my area and works with designers, but usually the designers work for a specific company ie the people who sell tile or sell the vanity). I did pursue 1 designer via houzz and she wanted nearly $200/hour. I think that is excessive and the charge should be for room design (produce 3 ideas for a set price). Bottom line - houzz needs to go 1 step further for virtual design services and allow designers and clients to produce virtual plans for a design and then have a way to measure performance. Instead, I post in a forum and keep my fingers crossed. It's okay but I'd rather pay and get some full engagement.

calikym I hope no one takes offense because I value all the contributions on houzz!!!!

Judy M I bought 2 custom doors for my bathroom remodel because of a photo in Houzz.
The architect was kind enough to tell me the brand.
Once I located a dealer ( Which was NOT a big box store) and got a quote I was able to order the doors.
The architect got nothing, but maybe he helped keep a small lumberyard in business. I hope so.

Apartment 46 for the Home Judy M your house is clearly very nice. :)

jcloot Interesting the "Cost option would be great" is heavily outweighing the "Cost option is not needed."

@nFORMAL, the translation of Houzz being a place for inspiration and education seems to be taken in the most literal of terms. The inspiration is beyond a Pinterest. It's about reading articles and going through the responses from the designers/builders, etc. I haven't had much luck getting responses in the "Design Dilema" discussion area. Also, there are few professionals in my area on Houzz for me to tap with my latest project; however, I'm spreading the word including a recommendation to an architect I know to publish a profile (he did and is having fun on the sight!)

Quality craftsmanship can not, should not be underestimated. The saying, "you get what you pay for," is perfect here, but too many variables to be misinterpreted. I have friends who fall into the 40-year old category of "just get it done and for cheap." I've been in the planning process to redo my kitchen, half bath, and mudroom for a couple of years. We're starting it soon, but I needed to find the right crew (not the cheapest) because flow for me, my family, and my guests is what makes me happy. I'm the chef (self proclaimed) and the baker - having a solid foundation of quality ingredients is key - and my kitchen is part of the foundation.

nFORMAL design Everyone...I was trying to NOT keep "explaining"...beating a dead horse so to speak. I'm all for being on here and giving help. Just check out my other threads...I give advice.

My issue is more with Houzz and how they inform the public, the media, etc. Their ORIGINAL idea (if you read the entire story) was like a Pinterest for residential design elements exclusively.

However, even as Mark Zuckerberg found out, you can't have a robust site without it generating money or without people donating a ton of money.

If this was a not-for-profit, interest site, that would be an entirely different beast altogether. First, the only images that you are legally allowed to "Ideabook" are the ones professionals put on here of their own work. Other work "stolen" from the web could be at the expense of the person who posted it.

So, without the professional profiles and work, there wouldn't really be a Houzz. On top of that, Houzz tells the professionals that they should pay a monthly fee (or be a really active participant) in order to get a higher ranked exposure level. They say the reason is that the higher the ranking the more likely someone will see your profile and therefore potentially hire you.

Sounds great, right? But don't tell the professionals that when you are telling the media and public that it is just an idea/inspiration site. "Come, grab some inspirations, ideas and free help...and leave." That isn't really fair to the people investing time and money with the hopes of getting clients. IF, on the other hand, Houzz told the professionals the exact same thing it tells the public/media. more than likely, most people that are paying to be "sponsored" wouldn't be paying, and Houzz would have to post ads all over the site.

All I'm saying is set the expectations the same for the professionals and the non-pros--equal across the board.

feeny Very tiny correction, nFormal: The only images you are legally allowed to "Ideabook" are the ones that Houzz participants (but not just professionals) have officially "uploaded" to the Houzz site. There are plenty of photos on Houzz that are of rooms not designed by professionals, and if they have been uploaded, rather than just attached to a discussion comment, they are available to put in ideabooks. But I suspect that 99.9% (possibly 100%) of the photos that are on the Houzz home page slide show are those of the professionals. Where you see some of the others is when you do targeted searches in the Photos section of Houzz.

nFORMAL design Feeny...correct...uploaded houses from pros or from homeowners, etc., of their own places. I would say that the majority, if not 90% or more, are from professionals. However, you CAN upload images that you grab from websites. We do it all the time...finish examples, cabinets from cabinet sites, etc.

Paul D'Amico - Period Design I find the cost option vote meaningless. I wish people stopped posting these type of votes on the internet in general. Whose been voting? There is no criteria, it's a completely subjective result. So the argument in favour for "Cost option would be great' wins - Oh Jolly good! You really think that is going to bring us professionals more work?

DeWitt Architects Paul D'Amico...The opposite of love is not hate but apathy. They fact you responded that you hate internet vote points shows your interest.

As for weather if bring in work is another question. Let me answer it with more questions. Does Facebook bring in work? Do magazines bring in work? How about job site signs? Does talking at parties bring in work? How about meeting with other similar professionals? My answer is both that they all do and they do not. The repeated exposure for your work and how you represent your business is the sum of the parts of marketing.

nFORMAL design… I understand you don’t like the way Houzz is represented differently and don’t feel it is getting your business while asking for money but that was not my question on this thread. Yes some really great award winning architects that are blocks away from me are not huge Houzz users but then again San Antonio is not an official Houzz city and those firms have sophisticated marketing departments. They also are doing residential work that is not even close to the cost demographic in Houzz.

sam0705 This poll may be more directed to professionals, but as a lay person an overall project cost would not be relevant to me. So much is dependent on geographic location, unforseen issues that pop up in a renovation, how much the homeowner is willing to spend. To me, an individual has their own budget to work within and they can visit houzz for inspiration or product information or to vet a professional in their area. I give people a little more credit than some of the professionals here do when it comes to understanding the difference between their budget and the photos in their ideabooks. I find that the product tags and photo info in general are helpful and will serve as a reality check with respect to the cost of the overall space.

nFORMAL design DeWitt...that's the thing about Houzz.. You posted a question and it turns into a totally different beast. Isn't that the great thing about this site...the organic nature of it? Haha.

@DeWitt...that is the point I was trying to make. You do Facebook, advertisements, parties, etc. with the hopes that you might potentially get work. The award winning firms, I contend, are not here because they aren't trying to get business from the cost demographic. I would contend that some of their cost demographic peruses Houzz, but they don't care because they don't NEED to get work from Houzz. That is why they aren't spending time in these discussions.

First, the mindset of the non-pro (and some pros as well) is that we are all on here answering questions and giving advice out (much of it that is useless due to budget concerns, etc.) instead of knitting, going to the movies, working in the garden, etc...that there is not drive to potentially get business. This is what we do just for the good of it and for the fun of it. Our firm, and I would suspect many others (including the "sponsored professionals") are here to try to expose potential clients to our skills and hope that by participating in the discussions that someone will see "XYZ" really knows what they are talking about and "I want to hire them." That is our goal. Do we think it will happen? Not really...but that is the goal.

If you asked most of my colleagues here in Chicago, they go to networking events, parties, have a Facebook site, etc., in order to try to get business. Most of my colleagues every waking moment is spent on clients or trying to get them. I also know people that have sites on Houzz...and originally were pretty active but have put it on the back burner (and don't engage in discussions) because it doesn't get them business and it doesn't work like Houzz told them it would.

I, personally, think the Design Dilemma and advice discussions should be like someone suggested earlier...a "FORM" at the beginning with TYPE, LOCATION, BUDGET, PREFERRED STYLE, etc. Then, at least, even if you do spend time trying to help without expecting to get business, you aren't spinning your wheels for hours in a thread only to find out in the end that the person doesn't want to spend more than "X" -- insert some totally unrealistic budget.

We were trying to help someone (and I mentioned this way earlier) who put "But NOT unlimited budget" on the very end of his post. What does that mean?

WineRacks.com I think an option like that can't hurt. Often people think that a wine cellar project is far outside their means but we can often work within people's budgets.

astraea I think that all home projects on websites, print magazines & HGTV should include cost figures, with an identification of the geographic area, to put that in perspective. Even if the numbers aren't exact, someone would know that the kitchen they'd like to have as shown, comes from the no-expense-spared $200K range, rather than something they could do for $25K .. without a total downgrade of material & appliances.

@Paul D'Amico - What you said about whether posting $$ would get professionals more work, was very telling. To me, it meant that giving potential clients here cost information that might discourage them from doing a project, is bad for business. From the other side of the table, posting projects without any $$ reference, gets people's hopes up about doing things that are totally outside their budget. Frankly, there are already too many people who live beyond their means, without the pressure of "trying to keep up with the Joneses" homes they see.

Twisted Minds Custom Designs As a professional, I don't believe pricing should be included, nor do I think it would be a good thing. As a builder, I will not discuss costs of a previous project with a potential client. I will ask the homeowner of the project that is in question, if they would mind talking with potential client and give them the option of discussing what they paid for their home improvement. Most of the projects people have in idea books are fantasy, (ie. I would love that $6,000.00 chandelier but am probably going to install the $150.00 one). Most people are going to be able to tell the difference between a $200,000 upgrade and a $25,000 upgrade, there's nothing wrong with dreaming, but if someone is serious about plans for remodeling/building, they should have an idea of budget and what is going to be available to them within that budget when shopping their project.

astraea I'm really so disappointed, at the low regard in which some of the professionals posting must hold clients & potential clients! You complain that our ideabooks are full of "fantasies" we can't afford, but if there are no cost ranges listed .. how the heck are we supposed to know we can't afford a particular look or materials?! Some thinkgs might be more obvious .. a 20' x 20' bathroom encased in marble is probably way over my bathroom budget, but a particular mosaic tile mural .. maybe I can afford it. Wouldn't it be easier to say that it's in the $2,500 vs $10K range, before I bother the company by calling to ask about it?

qbndds Maybe we should all have a cooling off period! LOL Good discussion though!

DeWitt Architects Astraea... I am sorry this discussion has offended you. I agree with you that owners need pricing to make informed decisions. I have talked my way out of more jobs by being are realistic with timeframe and costs. Some of these same clients come back to me years later and say they wished they had listened to me and that I was one of the few that told them the truth about what they were getting into. My approach is not to hide anything from owners. I show them everything from fees, timeframe, design flaws, costs, city meetings, codes, whatever they want, and after a time they fully trust me to do my best for them. I have had clients ask me to stop telling them how every decision changes the price. I think price can become a real sore spot if not always discussed and documented.

astraea @DeWitt - Last summer a designer highly rated by Angie's List offered inexpensive design services for a single room on Angie's. I've been thinking about redoing my jack & jill main bath, since I bought the house 4 years ago. I had a couple of design alternatives already laid out (I'm an engineer), to get the designers started, and have them give me feedback on the relative costs of the main alternatives. I said from the beginning, I wanted a ballpark estimate, because if it was too much, I didn't want to waste their time. They did a basic, as if they hadn't listened to a word I said, and it didn't get much better. In the end, when I was really exasperated - and still didn't have even a ball-park estimate of cost - they informed me they'd gotten too busy with Hurricane Sandy work to continue. When they finally did throw out a number, it was so last-minute, I had no confidence in it. So now I've got to start over again.

Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders Astraea, I don't think it is low regard for the consumer that drives the opinion of most of the professionals that are responding (I can't speak for all). For many of us, the inconsistency between how cost might be calculated and posted is of grave concern. I tried to highlight this and Linda tried to bring this up in one of her posts above. Also of concern is that there is no room to put a project description that is robust enough to assist in analyzing that cost. Ironwood alluded to this. What you will end up with is going to be no better than what is on HGTV and DIY and will be misleading rather than helpful. It will be worse than having no cost information at all.

Many of us that have very high construction standards (that does not mean that we only do extravagant homes, it means we have a great deal of pride in doing good, solid quality work) and our prices are going to be higher. I want the opportunity to get in front of an individual to tell them what my business does that is different from the next guy. I want to be able to show them the 5 extra steps we take to install a tile shower and why my showers last longer, or the extra step we take in finishing drywall if the paint will be anything other than flat paint. I want to be able to explain what design/build is and why it is different. Things that are not evident in a picture are the details that make all the difference in quality. I prefer not to be reduced down to a number only.

How I feel in no way says that the consumers are bad. It says that poorly presented information is of no value to anyone - and there is no way that anyone can require that all the calculations are the same and that everyone will do it the same way. It just further exacerbates the misinformation that is already out there. For consumers that wish to do some homework on cost prior to embarking on a project, there is a Hanley Wood Cost vs Value Report online that provides some uniform assistance.

And for all of us, please remember there is nothing stopping the professionals who wish to disclose cost from doing so. Add it to your project description if you think it is helpful to communicate. I know from experience that our customers do not want that information published for the world to see and it is my obligation to honor that wish for them.

astraea @Deborah - Thanks for the detailed response. I could probably go thru all the pros' posts here, and pull out ones that seem to look down at clients, or at least regard them simply as a "meal ticket" that shouldn't be discouraged by realizing a project will be more expensive than they may thing/hope. As far as clients whose homes are featured, that's a double-edged sword; I'd be perfectly happy not to know the homeowners' names, if that meant contractors could be more open about project costs. But I bet those homeowners like their names shown on the projects, especially if they're featuring their own design & decorating skills!

nFORMAL design @Astraea...I think that many of these issues are a "perpspective issue". I was just on a thread that was deleted by Houzz, but the huge argument was opinion and perspective.

I don't see clients as a meal ticket at all. In fact, most of our projects net really low profit. We do this work for a bunch of reasons but mainly because we love design, we love craft, and we love making clients happy. We go above and beyond the call of duty. In fact, one of our clients had a sink clip fail due to a bad batch of epoxy. It wasn't OUR fault, but we went out and spent an afternoon replacing sink clips on concrete counters.

On the flip side, that discussion I mentioned above was about "is this acceptable"? Well, it was bad construction practices (either needed better flooring or add shoe moulding), but the point that I was trying to make was "acceptable" is relative. I said that if they got the home for a steal, then that was acceptable. All of a sudden, I'm looked at as the guy who has "meal tickets". Nope. We aren't. However, I also think that potential clients need to have better expectations.

Building is a discussion of priorities. We talked about this before. You can't expect to get an iPhone 5 for the price of a cheap flip phone.

I will say that if the image looks AMAZING, it probably isn't going to be a low-budget driven space. Not always...but generally. DeWitts spaces are great and affordable in the "market" that he is in. However, I know people that would think $200 a SF is way too expensive. To most of us on here, that is very inexpensive. If I could a place designed like DeWitt's in Chicago for $162 on the Northside, I'd buy them and then flip them. Haha.

It isn't a name thing. If it is a custom home, then the owner figures someone will see it and recognize it. That cost is personal business. We've done projects for people and after the project, we've said, "I'll NEVER do that for the same price again. We got robbed!" However, we honored the price or did it to get exposure. BUT, I'd never tell the public that price because we won't honor it now. Price is a weird thing.

Curb Appeal Renovations I'll chime in here again...I do not want Houzz to put price as an option on the site. If you want to post how much your project was, that is your business. I think cjohnson, who is a consumer, said it best, tag the items in your pictures. Homeowners can then go out and find out how much those items cost. They can then contact you if they want too.

Houzz was started in 2009 by a couple that was frustrated because they didn't have a way to compile all their ideas and didn't have a place to go to for ideas. Wish I had thought of this! What a marketing tool Why shouldn't they make money? And, why shouldn't the professionals pay money to get their name out in more than one area? Come on people, if the website is to expand, thrive and grow, they've got to get their money somehow. True, manufacturers post their products and pay for that, but you don't see all the ads. If you think Houzz is full of tire kickers...you are way wrong. You need to go to a Houzz presentation and hear their user statistics. I did and was blown away.

I know people that use Houzz and it has become their main source of income...great for them, personally we hope to be able to say the same! And they did it without posting $$ signs on their pictures. If you've got people that are constantly contacting you with a low budget, maybe your marketing is portraying the wrong image.

Now get off this string...and go make some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..........

qbndds Curb Appeal Renovations;;;;
You are right I found doors I loved on Houzz from LaCantina they answered my inquiry within 24 hours in 2 days I had a call back met with them today they got my job $20K + he hooked up with a great architect and contractor who asked him to bid on 4 jobs and has a referral source form us my wife is in real estate and very active in marketing all traceable back to Houzz and the service this website provides in this day and age and in this business all the marketing counts I will always be a big proponent of Houzz as with anything else in life there are good points and bad it is up to the individuals to do their homework at the end of the day!