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by rkember
3 months ago in Design Dilemma
Engineered hardwood or real hardwood?
We're currently choosing flooring for our new house being built this spring. We live on the ocean on the Eastern coast of canada, have small kids, and a dog so we will need something that's going to be durable and work with the climate changes. We found a hickory floor we like but just can't decide whether to go with wood or engineered?! There seem to be pros and cons to both. Does anyone have any suggestions??
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DIRECTBUY OF FORT WORTH I have been in the flooring business for over 15 yrs now. I prefer engineered. It tends to be more stable with climate changes seasonally. I would suggest a 1/2" profile and with kids and pets I would suggest a handscraped to hide the minor blemishes. Also installing engineered is usually more cost effective than a solid and less likely to squeak over time. An engineered will last just as long as a solid. People always bring up 'you can't sand and refinish an engineered though." That's not true. Most engineered allow you to do that once maybe twice. But with a prefinished wood that has 7 to 9 layers of protection on top surface you should never need to sand and refinish. Just touch up the minor scraps that occur with a custom stain mixture that matches your floor color. You can get this from most large home improvement stores. Hope this helps. Pics are of some new engineered floors that my company just completed. Beautiful stuff.
3 months ago · ·
Ironwood Builders Solid wood floors can be refinished. I've had hardwoods in snow and ice country, and dusty California country...with kids and dogs and cats and construction (a carpenter's house is finished just before he moves out or dies). Engineered floors may be able to be refinished, maybe not, depends on the floor wear layer. They are more "stable" but wood is wood. Tearing it out and doing it over is expensive....no matter what floor it is.
3 months ago · ·
Lizabeth Ceramic and aluminum oxide finishes are more difficult to sand and refinish. I think they have a place in homes perhaps in low traffic bedrooms where they won't need to be redone. Expect to pay 30 to 40% more to have a factory finished floor resanded.

Do your homework on engineered product. The wear layers are getting thinner and thinner.
3 months ago · ·
Rosemary Freitas Have mercy on us and figure out how to turn your photos correctly.
3 months ago · ·
rkember Thanks for your comments, alas, still undecided!! Leaning towards hand scraped engineered to avoid the cracks and hide blemishes, but with every house I visit I change my mind ... Oh the joys of home building.
3 months ago · ·
Norm Walters Construction Inc. This is hand scraped Natural Acacia, I like the blend of tones.
3 months ago · ·
Lizabeth Not sure how handscraped might "hide the cracks". Just an opinion here but I like authentic materials. Handscraped floors that were done a 100 or more years ago before it was possible to machine and sand a floor smooth and have aged in place over time are a thing of beauty. An new engineered handscraped floor is a fake to my eye. Now that is just me. The first time I saw one in a house about six years ago I thought it was a mistake. House never sold and went into foreclosure. Most agents said the floors ruined that house.

I think prefinished engineered wood is OK in low traffic area and in remodels where finishing in place is impractical and/or over concrete slab which cannot have solid wood.

In a new build I would only put solid wood finished in place wood. If you want a more rustic look consider wide plank screwed and plugged floors, And pick a stable wood with low movement. Consider mixing grades of wood to save money if necessary. Extremely light or dark woods will show the most in terms of scratches. Mid tones will be more forgiving. I have never experieced "cracks" in a floor. What do you mean by that?

Hickory is a lively wood with both light sapwood and dark heartwood and will give you a rustic feel.

Also you can put better wood in the more public areas and lesser grades on upper floors or bedrooms.
3 months ago · ·
feeny Quarter sawn white oak is a very durable hardwood, and in medium tones (as Lizabeth suggests) hides a multitude of sins. Ours (in a Great Lakes region snow belt climate) have lasted 90 years and through multiple generations of owners (and presumably a few refinishings). We have a clumsy teenager and two medium-sized dogs (Aussies), and the people before us had three small children and a Golden Retriever. Our floors were last refinished 20 years and three families ago and are still going strong throughout the house.
3 months ago · ·
Thomas Development and Construction I think it is important to note there is a very wide range in engineered wood products in terms of look, species and finishes but most importantly in terms of quality and cost. In our market (Texas) you can get engineered wood floors for under $2/sqft and easily well over $10/sqft, and that is just the materials. Typically most people I see who go for engineered wood floors over real hardwoods spend closer to $4-5/sqft plus installation which runs $1.50-$3.00/sqft depending on costs of fasteners or glue, size of job, type of material, etc. Again in our market (as I am sure it may not translate to ever market in the US) by the time you get a nice, more realistic looking, decent quality engineered floor it costs nearly the same and a lot of times more than solid oak wood floors, which is the most prevalent real hardwood in our area. So my main problem is an engineered wood floor is more of a temporary flooring solution, by most experts account engineered wood floor are made to last 12-25 years. Solid wood floor if properly maintained can easily last 100-150+ years. Engineered or not, eventually all wood flooring fades, dulls and scratches over time, unless you’re 100% positive you can refinish your engineered floors I would plan on needing to replace all your flooring, or at least the flooring in that room. I have seen this countless times if you ever have a leak, decided to remodel (need to patch or add to), move a rug or piece of furniture that has been in the same place for a long time I can guarantee your options are much more limited with a engineered product than a solid wood product. Rarely are we able to successfully match, refinish or find a matching engineered wood, but with a solid wood floor we can add to, repair and match like it was original. We do projects all the time that require us to refinish, match or add to solid wood flooring and have never had any issues, even with floors that are 60-70+ years old. If you are doing a remodel to sell and engineered wood floors are appropriate to your specific neighborhood, budget doesn’t allow, some real specific look you just can’t get with real wood(but isn’t that defeating the purpose to some degree?) or maybe if it is a rental property then I can see a good argument for engineered floors. If you want a timeless wood floor that will literally last for generations, gives you more flexibility should you need to make future repairs, decide to remodel or add on later that it is a no brainer. There are a lot of other variables and considerations but hopefully that helps.
3 months ago · ·
rkember Very interesting feedback. Thanks to those who have commented. I forgot to mention we are building on a slab. Can hardwood be laid on a cement slab? We will have in floor heat as well. I think the slab complicates things but we can't avoid it ...
3 months ago ·
lewis + smith You don't want to directly lay any type of wood floor on a concrete slab. Even with the best moisture barriers there is moisture moving through the slab. You will want to fur up the wood floor off of the slab with pressure treated sleepers glued to the slab.
3 months ago · ·
Lizabeth Slab changes everything. Radiant heat in slab puts more fun into the equation. You are doing radiant because is wondrerful and comfortable, right? so why would you put something that does not marry well with it on that slab? Wood has an insulation factor and will somewhat slow the heat transfer. The heat transfer is not good for the wood I believe. People do it of course cause we call want our cake and to eat it. Tile makes more sense and/or a stained concrete is ideal for your house.

If you fur up the floor as lewis + smith advises which is correct you further isolate the heat from the house and your system has to run hotter and longer to heat the space.

I think you should discuss this issue with the heating contractor who is doing your BTU calculations and design work.

That said their is a supplier in Northern Michigan, Launstein, link attached http://www.launstein.com/launstein_radiant.html

that claims their 3/8 inch solid wood product performs well with radiant heat.

Good luck in your project.
3 months ago ·
Norm Walters Construction Inc. @Lewis and Smith, have you ever been to Florida?
3 months ago ·
Lizabeth Norm,

I am curious what florida has to do with the East Coast of Canada where original poster is building their home. Can you advise?

I think the climate of Seattle is somewhat similar to Maritime Canada.
3 months ago · ·
Norm Walters Construction Inc. Lizabeth, It had nothing to do with climate. In Florida 80% of the houses are built on concrete slabs. There are hundreds of thousands of engineered wood floors installed on those slabs. We always do a moisture test of the slab, if there is excessive moisture we apply this.
3 months ago ·
Lizabeth Thanks for explaining that Norm. what about radiant heat? Does anyone even need that where you hang out? do you float the floor over the slab?
3 months ago ·
Norm Walters Construction Inc. I have installed the radiant heat mats under tile before, over a slab. I hot glued the mat to the floor just to hold it in place, then I poured a self leveling underlayment over it such as Level Quick. As far as the engineered floors over concrete, they are all glue down. The glues for engineered floors have improved dramatically in the last few years.

Honestly, I am not familiar with heating wood floors, not something I have done. Another idea would be to use a porcelain tile that looks like wood and heat it, that I do know will work.
3 months ago ·
Cancork Floor Inc. My advice - contact the MANUFACTURERS of the flooring BEFORE DECIDING. There are many, many, many flooring manufacturers who do NOT recommend their hardwood (solid) going down over "in-floor radiant" heat. There are one or two "forward thinking" hardwood floor producers (solid) who recognize the need to stay up-to-date on the "radiant heat" thing! Those one or two manufacturers will tell you to STICK TO solid hardwoods that are LESS than 3 1/4 inches in width (as Ironwood has mentioned time and time again) the smaller widths are MORE STABLE. The Maritime climates (north Atlantic is hot/cold and humidity swings can be MASSIVE) will do a serious number on wood!

Ask yourself - "Do I want a thin-planked solid hardwood?" If the answer is "No" then you need to look at engineered. It is the end of the discussion. A wide planked wood IS NOT LIKELY to make it in your province. By that, we mean cupping, warping, etc. And that can happen inside of 1 week to 12 months! Such is the fun of a swinging humidity climate.

Once you have decided on the floor type CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER!!! Make sure the type of in floor radiant heat is WARRANTEED with the floor you want! Electric radiant is NOT something wood manufacturers will "guarantee". Hydronic is the main system that holds all the "guarantees" from the manufacturer! Remember: Electric = Fire hazard! If you have planned on electric heat in the floor, you may have to settle for PLASTIC or tiles. It is the only stuff "allowed" over the electric (I'm going to hear flack on this...I know...but still, I persist!). Contact your insurance company to ensure the electric would be covered if a "flammable substance" is put over top. (again, this is assuming the electric is what's going in).

Of course, I would suggest cork. You could save yourself the $15,000 - $35,000 in floor heating system and go with a floor that starts off warm! But that's just me!

TTFN
3 months ago ·
Kylie Thompson I have real hard wood floors. They are beautiful but I hate them. I live in a new construction home, just over a yr old now, and my floors are all dinged up. Anything that gets dropped leaves a nick in the floor. My son is 10 months old and tosses his plastic cup off his ht chair and there are several dings in the floor where his chair is. We now permanently have a lg towel under him.. A huge gouge was put in them from dropping a Hershey's syrup bottle. I would just like to recommend you do your research on durability. It's very discouraging to know our floors r fairly new and have a bunch of marks in them. It is likely w/in 5 yrs we will already have to have them refinished. Good luck with whatever u choose!!
3 months ago ·
Kylie Thompson I asked my hubby our hard woods are oak. So maybe consider staying away or getting the super ultra strong top coat:)
3 months ago ·
Marie Hebson's interiorsBYDESIGN Inc. ENGINEERED. Not only will it give you longevity, but you can go to the wider planks which feel more casual elegant.

The more rustic the finish, matte with character the better and the easier to disguise dings, scratches - life. The days of the high polished hardwood floors are over - and we're back to the classics. This european hand scraped for your engineered hardwood you can't go wrong.

Remember, wood floors are a natural product, you will not be able to keep them exactly as installed so get used to it. Be prepared for life to happen, and plan for it too happen. Good luck with your new home - the only down fall of engineered is that you will only get one, maybe two sandings and restaining if any.

Oh - you could also go to tile if you don't want wood floors - they make tiles that look like wood without all the durability issues.
3 months ago ·
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