SFGate

LeMaster Architects Tile usually is cheaper than hardwood... but I think that having the same flooring in the kitchen would look better.

feeny I know you want to hear an argument against continuing the wood, but I'm not considering the issue of cost at all, just aesthetics. I think continuing the wood into the kitchen would be the most attractive for the house as a whole. But I'd need to know what color the kitchen cabinets are in order to weigh in on whether dark walnut floors would look good with the design of the kitchen. If the cabinets are a dark wood I'd be worried the effect might be too dark. OTOH, if the cabinets are white or a light wood tone, I think the dark walnut floors would look great.

dianahb So, just to clarify-- is the "friend-contractor" the contractor on this job, or just a friend who also happens to be a contractor, offering this advice? If the "friend-contractor" is the actual contractor on the job, then were you sub-contracted to do the floors?

Either way, I don't know if I would "step down," but as her flooring person/contractor (which, I assume, you are), I'd simply tell her the downside of putting hardwoods on a kitchen floor (too much water, too many dropped items dinging it)-- and how tile is really the better option for a kitchen. If she decides to listen to the over-priced contractor instead, then she's got money to burn and doesn't have good sense, it sounds like.

j. freeman I hear you all on aesthetics and agree wood would be best choice if money was not an option, but when we started it appeared to be. Sooo...wood was not suggested! At that point, the old tile was gonna stay. As things were done, first the hardwood floor being stained darker, the client began adding and changing what had already been decided on. Seeing that the budget has grown with each new change/addition money is probably not a big deal although initially it was! Once the contractor-friend got involved, bidding on a back porch. Came in 14K higher and got the job. Things began to get dicey:)I just want the client to know that he's not being honest...hardwood is not cheaper! Think friend-contractor is shady and taking them for a ride and moving into my territory:) Maybe my ego is also taking a hit! Thanks for all of your comments.

dianahb I think there are a lot of shady contractors out there. After having renovated a couple of houses, we at least now have a line on a terrific tiler, plumber, electrician, carpenter, drywall installer-- but this is the problem when people want extensive renovations, but don't really know where to turn. As I'm sure you know, to find excellent, competent, capable, responsible (and honest) people to carry out all this work is next to impossible. Once found, they're like gold.

But I can see how someone can get taken. Still, I think you should just give her the facts (as in, 'just the facts, mam'). Show her what she can get in tile, and what she can get in hardwoods, and the price differences, including installation prices. Then she can make up her mind, and you've done all you can.

I'll just add that if the homeowner doesn't do a certain amount of homework, that's his/her problem. I am consistently amazed at prices people will charge, and what they will tell you can or can't be done. Truly amazing. So people seriously need to do their own research and checking around. But it also helps to have people like you who will point out the viable alternatives and options.

lewis + smith There are a lot of shady people in general. They come in all colors shapes sizes and professions. There are a million points I could make to argue with you but it is not worth it. The majority of people I know in the trades and working as gcs are all honest and competent. If we were like gold as you say I wouldn't have to work as hard as I do.

Both proposed solutions can turn out well. Cost difference will obviously depend on actual materials selected from each. One is not clearly going to be cheaper than the other. Good luck navigating the politics of the project.

j. freeman Thanks for all the comments. I agree that there are shady people in all walks of life and lots of really good contractors. I actually have three that are honest and dependable and fun to work with! Ditto with painters and tile guys:) In this case, hardwood is going to be more, period. The original hw was done in December and the way the current tile is positioned they will have to take some of the already stained hw out and put new wood in...It is five inches wide, red oak, and looks lovely! Aesthetically, I think even mixing wood and tile could do the trick...Anyway, end of rant! And, thanks:)

dianahb lewis&smith: Yes; I agree there are a lot of shady people in general. Absolutely. My experience, though, with many contractors and sub-contractors is that they typically do jobs that homeowners either can't or won't do for themselves. I certainly wouldn't attempt to put up drywall, or do electrical work, or even tile anything. I can't do those things, and I wouldn't be able to do them well, and the good news is-- I know I can't. So I look for good, smart, talented people to do that for me, and I'm happy to pay them to do that. I don't want to be taken to the bank, though.

The thing is, I'm not in the minority. So we homeowners are often left at the mercy of people who can do this work (or, at least, say they can) and who often charge inordinate pricing. IF one doesn't do his or her homework, it can be a disaster.

The ones who are really good are those who not only have the technical expertise, but also have an aesthetic eye. They listen to the homeowner, and they make suggestions and offer alternatives. They really know their work and are proud of it. AND they're not out to take advantage.

As far as competency and honesty-- I feel like I've seen it all. So when I say the good ones are like gold, I mean it-- and I also believe they're few and far between. But maybe I'm just pickier than most.

Norm Walters Construction Inc. Diana, as a general contractor it is my job to relieve you of the effort of finding the proper subcontractors. One of my reponsibilities is to make sure each one has the proper insurances so that the homeowner is covered if someone gets hurt on the job, or if a catastrophic event occurs and an insurance claim has to be filed. Correctly pricing projects involves all of these costs and more, to include a profit. When you say someone is charging too much, I'm not sure what you can base that on. It can't be based simply on the fact that someone else gave you a lower price, unless you are comparing apples to apples. You probably have more experience with remodeling than most consumers do, as you have been through a few. There are however many different ways to do the same project, some better than others. A general contractor has years of experience dealing with issues that come up on a daily basis, ever changing building codes, and ever emerging EPA regulations.

dianahb Hi Norm Walters-- Yes; of course, I have used general contractors before, and have been very pleased with the two we've hired over 25 years-- but we hired them for major major renovations-- not simply to redo a bathroom. And, yes, they did have terrific sub-contractors-- many of whom I've hired on my own, since. Where do you think I found those great people? ;).

But when I say overcharging-- I mean that someone will put a mark-up on a product I could go and get myself for much less. Or they'll tell me something I know is completely incorrect. And in the digital age, especially, it's just stupid to do that-- when homeowners can so easily find the cost of items and find and pick it up themselves.

Or . . . when getting bids from different contractors to do a large renovation-- the bids are all over the place-- some not even close to being in the same ballpark as another contractor. And we're not changing our minds over what we want.

As an example of incompetence (or lack of knowledge, or lack of willingness to do what needs to be done-- or lack of something-- not sure), we wanted to renovate this older (1920's) detached building that had tall interior ceilings with the original wood beams. The roof on this building needed to be replaced-- aside from everything else that needed to be done-- but I really wanted to preserve that ceiling (not cover it up with wallboard). So I kept interviewing these contractors who all told me that you absolutely could not replace a roof and insulate from the outside -- that insulation in the roof had to be in the ceiling, inside, which would-- of course-- eliminate being able to preserve this ceiling. I kept saying, "Are you sure? Because that makes no sense to me." They assured me they knew what they were talking about. So I just kept interviewing until I finally found a very good contractor (with a great reputation) who said to me, without hesitation, "Absolutely-- that's done all the time, specifically with historic structures like this that people want to preserve." So that turned out to be no problem at all-- it's done all the time-- and that was that. But I had to go through at least 5 contractors before I found one who knew what I was talking about, and who knew how to do what I was asking. Why should that be so difficult?

So if I'd listened to that first contractor, or even the 2nd or third . . . I mean, seriously--- the homeowner has to use his or her brain and not simply put blind faith in all these people. Even the subcontractors who are very good often come up with the most inane ideas that leave me wondering about how much glue they've been sniffing. ;)

Mega Builders As to your question, getting in between is VERY LIKELY to back fire.
Step back and wait to see if your client will get back to you.
In the mean time, make sure to communicate to your client, in writing, any issues that might affect your work or warranty. Good luck!

Norm Walters Construction Inc. Diana, I think I have sufficiently hijacked this thread, athough I would like to continue this conversation. If you want to start another thread I will find you. 8-)

PYRAMID DESIGN GROUP If you have lost the respect of your client and the contractor has become the designer, in my professional opinion it is time to remove yourself from the project.