Roots and Rafters Great advice, Kenny. Thank you!

olldbobbi A written punch list is the best idea. This way, neither party wastes valuable time.

olldroo A thorough 'to-do' not only saves time but also prevents any misunderstandings,ensures the contractor knows exactly what you expect and can be referred back to if problems arise. A separate list of 'discussion' subjects is also helpful if unsure of feasibility or cost viability of work wanted with a follow up list of work to be proceeded with.

Although it is a good idea to defer to a contractor's knowledge and experience, don't be backwards in asking why things are done a certain way or putting forward ideas you might prefer. It gives much more peace of mind knowing why things are done a certain way and lets you feel you are still in control.

Create an ideas book on Houzz of designs - showing a contractor exactly what you want rather than trying to describe it reduces risk of error.

JAN MOYER I think Kenny left one out: Do not "chop up" your project with your contributions to it via anything more than getting you and your stuff, your kids, and dogs out of the way. Do not in the interest of savings, say " I can take my own wall down", "I am good at wood, I can put up the crown molding myself". If you MUST do your own crown molding, do it after the contractor has left the site for good. A homeowner's best contribution is to have materials chosen on time, to avoid changes of heart requiring changes in work orders, and keep the checkbook, coffee, and donuts handy.
Signed, The interior designer

missourimike If the contractor doesn't have alcohol on his breath during the initial meeting, give him points. If alarm bells go off in your gut when talking to a contractor, follow your gut, not your heart. I've been a Master HVAC contractor for many years, and see what goes on that the homeowner doesn't see. Have a good Home Inspector check the work as it progresses.

John H. Having built 7 homes and being an engineer, I know that many short cuts or "bubba" does it his way is not the fault of contractor, but the sub. Many subs know only one way to do something. Complicated homes take alot of engineering and subs and contractors don't often like to follow the plans that are different from what they normally do. I advise people to select contractors based on houses he or she has built that are similar to their own taste.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. I design and build, so I have a process that I follow with any new client: 1. Gather information from the homeowner about what they want and what their budget is; this is also necessary in order to design and assign cost. 2. Create an Excel sheet that itemizes all major elements necessary to complete the project, in the order of construction, and the estimated cost. 3. Create an Excel sheet that notes all items that will require a decision by the homeowner, and the date the decision is due.

Architectrunnerguy I've never really bought the "I'll do my best" comment from a contractor. That, in effect is setting the bar where he wants it set and who know's where that is. You have to frame the discussion to a results oriented one in lieu of a skill level oriented one as interpreted by someone else.

I often counter the "I'll do my best" comment with either paraphrasing or quoting a Winton Churchill observation: "Sometimes it's not enough to do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required". Sir Winston was probably referring to getting rid of the German government and getting all remaining Germans back inside Germany but it can be very effective if talking about a stair detail for example. It sets the bar where you want it set.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. I agree that "I'll do my best" is most probably a red flag for a homeowner looking for a good contractor.

S. Thomas Kutch Advice to the owners to enhance your relationship with your contractor. Invest up front the monies needed to have a complete set of plans available.......and by complete, I mean complete. When my partner and I were together doing custom design -build high end residences (meaning he and I designed them and I, as the GC, built them) we could have as many as 20 sheets in the drawing set.

A good set of plans will have a plot plan, a floor plan, all 4 elevations, a framing plan (if it's a complicated design), foundation plan, roof plan, at the least a longitudinal and cross section, as many wall sections as needed to convey specific design fenestration,, details sheets as needed to identify specific conditions and desired elements, interior finish elevations, door-window schedule and finish schedule. Cross discipline sheets will include the hvac layout and equipment, electrical plans and details (riser, fixture schedule, panels), and mechanical (plumbing, gas layouts, risers, details).

Include the expense of a good set of plans in your project budget. I've seen these expenses to be anywhere from $.50 per square foot to $2.00 per square foot from residential designers.. From Architects, I've seen fees anywhere from 4% - 12% of the estimated cost of construction. There are many variables to be considered. If your intended design is typical 2 story colonial tract home, then you can expect something on the lower scales. If your intended design is a replication of say a Frank Lloyd Wright Falling Waters you better count on it being on the higher end if not higher for your plans.

The point being that, a) it is far cheaper to resolve issues and conflicts on paper than it is to resolve them in the field, b) the whole purpose to a good set of plans is to convey information to the contractor(s) to give you what you want and at a reasonable cost. You can't do a detailed take off on a sketch from a paper napkin. I said that one time to a fellow designer and 2 months later he brought me a fully set of plans, sketched out on a 8" high stack of paper napkins. Not very practical, but funny as hell. We framed the design in a series of frames under glass and placed them around the office.

Cost creep is inherent when design decisions are made in the field, when changes are made off the hip. There will always be conflicts to resolve in the field, but the more information provided for in the drawings will lessen the instances where these occur.

And, as a former GC, I can tell you, I loved a fully detailed set of drawings with the cross discipline plans included. Number one, they gave me a confidence that the owners had thought their plans out thoroughly and had already make decisions as to finishes, style and elements desired. Two, I can assure them a more detailed cost estimate. Three, I have a definitive foundation to stand on when a sub goes "cowboy" with his discipline. Lastly, I know that everyone.......owners, me and the subs are all playing from the same play book and the same page.

State Wide Construction & Remodeling Definitely listen to your gut when meeting with a prospective contractor. Ask many questions!! Your questions should be answered in detail and not brushed off. Choose an experienced, licensed contractor who will create a detailed and easy to understand contract of the services, with a breakdown of time, work to be done and payment plan. Also, The homeowner should have a direct number to contact their contractor-

I personally have my cell # as well as office on my website-
Http://www.swhomeremodeling.com

Los Angeles home remodeling

riconsd Dude 6-10 are great.

1-5 Please your just trying to lower expectations, and make excuses.

1 Cowboy up, call the client and break it off.
2. If contractors didn't try new things we would still live in caves. If I want something new I expect it and to pay for it.
3. Contractors are suppose to be professionals; make a schedule, stay to it, or have a good reason why not, and keep the boss (client) informed. All the rest of us grown ups have to.
4. Everything is negotiable.
5. If the customer has done a change order tell them how it effects cost and schedule. It is what they are for.

After rereading these ten it reminds me of those Cosmo lists of dating red flags ;).

Fine Art & Portraits by Laurel Great job!

ldavis40 @S. Thomas...I'd hire you in a heartbeat! THIS is the professional in which we are all seeking. Thank you for sharing.

puating I wish every owner would read this! :0)

gwen47 I would add one that I've come up against and know of others who have done the same. Many contractors don't seem to know the meaning of budget---as in, this is what I have and no more can be spent. I've even been told I should arrange some way to get more money. I've often read that you should have 25% over the budget amount you give the contractor for things that may come up. I would say tell the contractor you have 25% less than you are budgeting.

If you want to spend $40,000, have another $10,000 in reserve for those unexpected things, but tell the contractor that you have $30,000 budgeted.

I also found that trying to go with less expensive materials doesn't necessarily save that much because often the biggest cost is labor.

I tried to renovate a retirement house from three hours away. Not a good idea. You need to be there every day.

DO NOT let the contractor talk you into or out of something that is really important to you. And know that sometimes they will tell you that something can't be done just because they don't want to do it.

I know I have a rather jaded view and not all contractors are like this, but plenty are.

JAN MOYER @ gwen,
OUCH! Having worked with some of the best contractors money could buy, the line one said best is this:" I'm not doing it for the practice." Many of these people have decades of experience. They are problem solvers. Whether renovating, or decorating, the worst result will come from trying to fit too much into a given budget. But renovation can reveal problems that must be fixed, items that aren't to codes... there are a host of reasons for a slush in reserve, beyond the quote you agreed on. The sole reason many folks like brand new homes, requiring nothing more than unpacking. Renovation is not for every homeowner, or every budget. And yes, being on the site frequently is always a great idea, or having the eyes and ears of a local designer if you can't be there.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. For the person who said they had to be there every day, here is the answer to that dilemma: I only work on one project at at time. Since I design it, I know how it is going to have to be built. I am there at least once every day, have contact number/s for the homeowner/s who can make a decision, and sometimes I am at the jobsite more than once a day. I have done projects for clients that were out of town for the entire duration of a project. This is possible with excellent expectations from both parties, extreme planning before beginning the project, and a commitment from me to give the very best every day.

Architectrunnerguy An often overlooked point in hiring a contractor is to ask them how many days a week they typically work.

In almost every business there's weekends which evaporate because a schedule and client expectations have to be met but if that's the norm, best to find yourself another guy for a few reasons.

First, from time to time we all use weekends to "get back on schedule". nothing wrong with that but if a guy is already working seven days a week, week after week after week going back months, there's no built in fluff if it's needed on your job.

Second, down time is valuable. The time with the family, fishing, antiquing, gardening or whatever leaves your contractor fresh and ready to focus on the critical aspects of his job come Monday morning and that job may be yours. Downtime benifits everybody. He'll show up fresh and rested as opposed to tired, on edge and stressed out.

Third, if it's a reno job and your living in the house, it's nice to have the house to yourself on weekends and after 5PM. May not happen all the time (see above) but it's better if that's the SOP.

Again weekends and long hours may come about like if there's bad weather etc. but it shouldn't be the norm. Ask your guy what the last eight weeks have been like and when he took his last real vacation. If he says "I've been slammed and I can't remember", look for someone else.

meandhimboth Too bad I found this a bit late

S. Thomas Kutch Gwen, the biggest problem for most owners is budgeting. Especially in remodeling work. There are two kinds of cost in construction.

Hard cost, that is the actually construction cost. Materials, labor, tools, equipment....these are the most common hard cost.

Soft cost are in addition to the hard cost. The most common soft cost are design fees, owner rep fees, permits, construction loan interest, construction insurance and service tapping fees. Some times you have testing fees. In certain regions, you may be required to have a radon test done, soil test or a percolation test done for a septic system or even water test for a well service.

So many owners fall into the trap of figuring I have $50,000 to do my remodel project and lump that all to hard cost. Then when the soft cost come rolling in, the first thing they figure is that the contractor has screwed them or doesn't know what he or she is doing. The problem is that out of that $50,000 comes both hard cost AND soft cost.

I don't do work without a contingency figure accounted for either, so that comes out of that $50,000 too......especially in remodeling work. I have yet to have a remodel project that didn't have some hidden cost due to discovered conditions (i.e. mold, dry rot, wet rot, leaky copper, burnt wiring.... you name it). Of course a lot of this can be headed off with a) a good designer who does a thorough investigation with your contractor, and b) a constant reconciliation of the budget during the construction process.

Budgets are living entities..... left unattended they can run a muck and quickly get out of control.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. All contractors are not "guys". :)

gwen47 The comments seem to be mostly from either architectural firms doing high end renovations or designers. I was speaking from the point of view of those who can't afford that kind of renovation and who may have done years of research before they designed what they want. I thought the article was aimed at the person who was hiring their own contractor and I wanted people to learn from my mistakes and those of friends and acquaintances. In a smaller town, one doesn't always have a whole lot of choices of builders/contractors. Many people must oversee their own project and make sure it's done the way they want it.

One of the reasons I hired the person I did for the long distance renovation was because he was willing and even excited about doing some things that were "out of the box" and I had known him years before. Hiring someone you know socially may not be a good thing. Unfortunately, he didn't know how to do everything he said he did and I paid for his self-education and "thinking" time. I didn't investigate his work as thoroughly before I hired him as I now realize I should have---and that is something I really would advise others to do.

Most of us only do this a small number of times in our lifetime and most of us don't have the budgets for the kind of renovations we see on TV or in the magazines.

gwen47 @Thomas, I take your points, but there were very few soft costs on my project. There were a few surprises that had to be taken care of. Other than some decisions made by the contractor that he definitely should have called me about, the main problem was that after the initial deconstruction, which went really fast, there were a number of weeks where there didn't seem to be much progress. Since I wasn't there I don't know if I was being taken advantage of or not.

He also took it upon himself to partially deconstruct a mosaic backsplash which I had spent a lot of time and even blood on without asking me and then put it up in it's broken state. I paid him for breaking my artwork and now it sits there and mocks me because I haven't figured out a good way to fix it. That was at the very end of the job and I didn't know what happened until later. Since we have many acquaintances in common I didn't feel like I could refuse to pay---hence my advice to stay away from hiring people in the same social circles as you.

I don't know about other places, but my experience has been that hard estimates are not made because the contractor doesn't know how much time things will take. I once had a plumbing job done where he estimated way over---and his helper was unavailable when he did the job, so I helped him when he needed another pair of hands. Instead of 10 hours, he took six, so I was very happy and since I was there, there were no surprises.

You are right, Thomas, budgets can run amuck and I didn't know how to ride herd on mine. A lot of the problem was my fault because of that and I hope others can learn from my mistakes.

JAN MOYER @GWEN
Working with ANYONE friend or not, in your "circle" or not, requires the same points to be written down and walked through verbally. If you had heart and soul into a self designed and executed backsplash, why would you not say/write in advance...." that splash is EXTREMELY important to me. Can you work around it successfully?" Contractor then may say he will really try. If that isn't good enough, you have to be prepared for a re-do of same. All projects start with lightning speed demolition, and then appear to slow to crawl in comparison. It helps to have a loose calendar of what phase will be complete by when, and still be prepared to adjust. Not much that is really fast is good, and not much that is really good is fast : ) Hope your next experience is better.

gwen47 You are correct, as others have mentioned, absolutely everything needs to be written down explicitly. That can't be emphasized too much. I forgot to write one thing down about grout lines and will have to have my whole kitchen countertop completely redone because of it.

But in this case, the person knew very well how precious and time consuming my piece was. I think it may even have been his idea---I know it was at least partly his idea. We had designed the template together and he cut out the base for it, but he had made a mistake measuring which perhaps he couldn't have foreseen. I don't blame him for that part. If he had called me before he tried to take it apart, I would have said to not mount it and I either could have done the fixing or come up with something else. He didn't break it trying to mount it---he purposely pried pieces off before he mounted it, which very well could have broken the whole piece. Then he went ahead and glued it to the wall, making it impossible for me to fix. That's the part that upsets me, it's stuck to the wall and I can't fix it---or take it down and replace it without tearing up and possibly replacing the drywall. The fact that he waited 10 days and then wrote me a letter about what he had done tells me that he knew he had screwed up big time and was embarrassed to talk to me. I can't even imagine why he did what he did. Would you not have called before you tried to take apart something like that? I will take the blame for anything where I made a bad decision or didn't write down, but I don't know what more I could have done to keep this from happening---except to have been on site at the time.

I realize that this particular kind of thing is something that probably doesn't happen often, but I also know a lot of people who have come home to things not being done as agreed upon and the contractor has tried to persuade them that the mistake is actually better or doesn't matter and they should not insist on having it redone. Like the person not bringing the plan to work and putting the bathroom window in the wrong place, or building a stand for a dryer which wasn't even in the room being renovated or putting in shelves instead of drawers or just deciding to change something because they think it should be that way. I could go on. Those of us who are amateurs at this don't even dream that these kinds of things will happen. That is the reason for this article and comments.

I also have a friend who just had her entire house renovated over a period of six months while they were still living in it and she continued her at home baking business while it was happening. She didn't seem to have any complaints at all. If I do anymore renovating, I will certainly ask her for recommendations.

olldroo Gosh, I really feel for you Gwen47, sadly this happens so much with friends and acquaintances. However, if he really is that embarrassed about it and can't face you maybe it is because he knows he could and should also be making an effort to help you repair the damage. Would it really kill him? Running away and hiding is just a cop out and would make me even more angrier than the damage.

S. Thomas Kutch Often in some areas alternatives to a variety of contractors is very limited and as such the skills level can be very restricted. In some areas the only qualifications to being a contractor is a tool belt, hammer, skill saw, tape measure and a pick up truck. Throw in a caulk gun and finish nail gun and you can call yourself a finish contractor.

Unfortunately, there are contractors (both GC's and subs) who just don't give a damn. There are those whose evaluation of their skills sets are far more expansive than their abilities. Managing a project is a complicated effort. You have to be a combination craftsman in your trade, designer, business person, accountant, logistics expert, PR specialist and often times you need to be a psychic. Now days, more often than not, some contractors jump into the fire without the experience. Apprenticeships have dwindled, Qualified mentors are getting rare. And then there are the trends.

Right now the trend is everybody can do it themselves. Just look at all the DIY and HGTV programs and we're flooded by the media prompting home owners to do it themselves. Like just anybody can do it. And there are some things just about anybody with common sense or a little coaching can do. Then there are the things that are best left to the experienced professionals or at the least experienced home owners who have acquired some construction skills. I wouldn't recommend that the home owner, who can't build a bird house, attempt to set trusses on his addition. There's more to pouring a concrete slab for your house than just ordering the concrete and spreading it around.

The other potential problem is home owners acting as their own GC. Can they do it, sure. But they aren't as efficient and quite often lack the experience and skill sets that come with experience necessary to see potential problems in quality, scheduling, progressions, oversight and the necessary communication with the sub. It is a learned process, and usually that learning process comes from mistakes made and lessons learned to hone the most efficient methods in terms of schedules and budgets. learning curves are usually costly. The biggest danger is not knowing when to step back and let the experts address the issue or task. I know how to wire a house, I know how to wire a panel, I know how the service feeds from the meter box to the disconnect and from there to the panel. I know there are electricians who think nothing of running a new feed to a hot meter box from the disconnect. They say there's nothing to it......just don't make a ground. I've watched them do it. Hell will freeze over before I attempt to do it.....a mistake could be the last I make.

Like the old Kenny Rodgers song goes....."you got to know when to hold em and know when to fold em...."

gwen47 Thank you, Groovygranny, yes, a simple "i screwed up, how can I make it right?" would have salvaged the relationship. As it is, I will not recommend him and I certainly won't ask him back to do anymore work.

Also, thank you, Thomas, for your explanations. It does make me understand the situation a bit more. Next time I will ask a lot more questions---last time I didn't even know what questions to ask. I do know my limitations, I won't even put up a light fixture although I've been told it's easy. I'd rather spend the extra money than electrocute myself or burn my house down.

But I have been left with a number of unfinished projects due to the budget overrun and, after two and a half years, am still struggling with them because I am not good at DIY. And, yes, I have found that every profession or trade has their own language and the words used may not mean what you think they mean. Laminate now seems to mean only vinyl and wood laminate is called wood and not a laminate---at least in the midwest. And the guys at Home Depot don't always know what they say they know---I was told once that joint compound and plaster were the same thing. I ask several people now before I do anything. Most things should be left to the professionals, but if you want something like the countertop I did, you'll probably have to do it yourself.

Some advice though---don't do a slate and glass countertop as your first tiling project and DO seal slate tile before you put it down and certainly before you grout it. I think this turned out nicely, but it took months and I ended up painting the grout. It's a guest bathroom, probably wouldn't work too well in a bathroom that gets a lot of use. The "artistically arranged" tiles on the wall are to cover up holes.

gwen47 Jan Moyer in an above comment is right---don't do this until the contractor has left the building.

salsi If he says he will paint that might be exactly what he will do. Don't presume he will remove old paint, scrape and sand first. I learnt the hard way.

JAN MOYER Trying to do very small phases of complicated projects on your own is a killer of results. Your own small area may turn out fine, but something else gets loused up... Live and learn. And "covering up holes" with tile, isn't necessary when it it's a question of simple drywall patching, taping, and skimming, that most painters are skilled enough to do, or certainly can be done by any contractor. Next time will be better huh?

samiaminc What are you supposed to do when you tell the contractor that you don't want to spend more than $200,000 on the remodeling project and he said it will cost a little more than that . Then he gives you a quote for $255,000 and by the time he has pissed you off and not even completed the project he is asking for $369,000. He refused to paint or even prime walls prior to putting in wood floors and cabinets even though I was very insistent that it be done first. . Now my home still has trim work ,painting and quite a few other details that need to be completed. I also had my own plumber and he kept trying to send in his own. He ripped out my CONCRETE septic tank and MY plumber said it was unnecessary. It was a 50 year tank and it was only 30 years old. I tried to work out a payment schedule with the contractor in a legal agreement. He agreed to the schedule but not to the details of it. He was required to give me original documents for the whole job and he refused to. I know he is hiding a lot and padding the hell out of things. My wood floor costs (LABOR ONLY) was $9000+ for 5 days of work and it's not even finished. My rock fireplace (LABOR ONLY) was $6000+ and the rock has to be cleaned up now, because the installer was too lazy wipe down after grouting. It is very sloppy. My contractor threw a fit because I hired my own electrician. His tile guy came in and kept screwing up . multiple room(S) had to be redone due to errors by tile guy. wrong tiles in wrong rooms. not following interior decorator's drawings. etc. etc. By the time I told the contractor to pack up his stuff , I had already paid over $266,000 and he wanted $103,000 more. Would you have paid OR taken him to court ????? Let's just say we are not still engaged in a legal payment schedule. He has tried a construction lien which will fail because .......
1. I don't even own the house yet
2. The bank has first lien because of construction loan.
3. he refuses to show documentation of work

I live in Nebraska...there is no contractor's board to go file a complaint with. apparently it's Ok to be a crappy contractor here.
What would you do ???

S. Thomas Kutch I have read the article and every posting and the commonality in them all is one word......COMMUNICATION...... or the lack thereof. I can honestly offer that the bane of communication on the job site is terminology, understanding and scope. The contractor says paint and what the owner hears is preparation, repairs, primer coat and finish coat. What the contractor meant was paint, as in one coat of finish paint to make it look pretty.

There is a very simple solution to remedy these problems. Communicate! Be it a full set of detailed drawings linked to a written contract and referenced as and identified as the contract documents (drawings, specs and contract) or a sketch on a napkin. This way it's in writing. The owner has a legal standing and the contractor has legal standing.

I don't care how small the project is.......everything needs a contract. If the contractor doesn't offer you one, that's a red flag......you need to keep your eyes open......write your own and present it to him. I don't care if it's one paragraph long. It needs to identify the following elements.
1.Your name as Owner.
2. Contractor's name or company name.
3. Scope of work to be provided.
4. Materials to be provided.
5. Schedule for completion.
6. Schedule for payments.
7. Signatures of both Owner and Contractor and date.

A larger project will have a longer contract...........but the key is get it in writing. What the Owner wants and expects, what the Contractor is providing, what it's going to cost and when it's supposed to be completed.

If your contractor doesn't offer you a contract he's suspect. He/she isn't a professional. If he/she won't consider, review, negotiate and sign your contract, thank them for their time and escort them to the door.

gwen47 Yes, Thomas, you are right. Too bad I didn't have this advice before I started. Unfortunately, for me and probably many others, we started out not even knowing what questions to ask or what to look for. That is why articles and comments like this are a good thing. Also, above, you pointed out that in some areas there are no qualifications for contractors and that is probably true in many areas of the midwest. I think that recommendations from friends, if that is possible, is the best way to go.

And Jan, yes, most painters and contractors could have fixed the holes, but I am now on my own since, as a retiree, the blown budget is the end of the money. I have fixed holes in dry wall and plaster, but obviously am not an expert. Making it into artwork actually worked quite well, no? Sometimes adversity forces you to be creative.

Most of what the contractor did turned out well, but what didn't turn out is something that can inconvenience you every day and what is remembered.

I would add to Thomas's list:

1. Make sure the site is inspected every day, by you if possible. That way any misunderstanding can be caught before they become impossible or extremely costly to fix. (Despite a contract and extensive instructions, there will probably be misunderstandings or unexpected things coming up.)

2. Spell out what decisions, if any, can be made by the contractor and what you have to be consulted on. Put it in the contract that you are to be consulted on anything unexpected that comes up.

3. Put in the contract that any damage caused by the contractor will be put right at his/her expense.

4. Already mentioned, but can't be emphasized enough, make sure the contractor or subs have experience doing what you want done.

But what do you do if you live in a small town or in the country and can't find someone who has experience laying a river rock floor or doing a wall-hung toilet? Anybody have an answer to that---besides just not having it done?

5. Also already mentioned, but again can't be emphasized enough, make sure you feel comfortable with the contractor. They might be the best contractor around, but if they can't/won't communicate with you or are condescending or intimidating, run away fast. Personally, people who never laugh make me uneasy.

And, yes, all the DIY shows make everything look so easy. Renovate your bathroom in a weekend---right! Renovate the whole house for $2,000---good luck!

It was also mentioned that some people buy a new house so they can just move in and not bother with things. My neighbors, as first time home buyers, bought a spec house as it was being built and didn't know what questions to ask or what to look for. Gutters didn't come with the house, and most of the light fixtures just had bare bulbs hanging in them when they moved in. Some years later, after they had cemented in posts for a fence, a house was put up next door and they found out that six feet of what they had been told was their property, wasn't. When a truck parked on their driveway, the cement cracked very badly. So that isn't without it's pitfalls either.

S. Thomas Kutch Samiaminc...... man you've got a mess and you need legal help. There are several questions that need answering first.

1. Did you have a full set of construction plans that spelled out finishes, fixtures, etc., etc. or was this a design as we go type project.
2. You said you told the contractor that you didn't want to spend over $200,00. Was that entire project cost (hard and soft cost) or was that just hard cost?
3. Did you have a contract that spelled out the budget of $200,000 and the scope of work, which subs you would provide and their scope of work and which subs he would provide and their scope of work? Did it include a schedule of completion and a payment schedule? Did it have language that addressed change orders and a process for handling them?
4. When the contractor came back with a figure of $255,000 did you accept that figure?
5. Did you ask for any change in the scope of the work or finishes?
6. Did you ask for a detail cost break down showing materials, labor and mark-up?
7. Did you approve any of the changes in the field? Did you get a detailed breakdown of those changes, again showing materials, labor and mark-up?
8. Did the increase to $255,000 come in before the work started and if there was a contract, did the contract get revised?
9. Was there a reconciliation of the design to the budget? Was there any "value engineering" done to get the design to match the budget?
10. For the additional monies asked for above the $255K, was there a change order involved that altered the scope of work, or a field directive issued?

If you answered no to any one of or a combination of those questions, you can begin to see where you got off on the wrong foot and the whole thing snow balled down hill.

As to the Mechanics Lien, yes he can file a lien, even if the bank holds the construction note. Not only can he file a lien, each sub-contractor, laborer and material supplier can file a Mechanics Lien if the GC didn't pay those accounts, even if you paid him the money for those items.

To put it mildly Sam, you're in deep water up to your neck in alligators. I certainly hope that you have a paper trail (i.e. construction documents, contract, change orders, field directives and a whole boat load of photographs) and you need to take all of these and any other information to a good Construction Lawyer. Even if you don't have a paper trail you need to hire a good Construction Lawyer.

The last question I have for you is this, why in the world if you're doing a $200,000 remodel project wouldn't you hire an Architect or experienced project manger?

Kenny Grono As usual, this is a great discussion and it is bringing out many more issues than I could ever hope to in my short ideabooks. As Gwen47 said, this ideabook was intended to give homeowners dealing with contractors on small and large projects some perspective and context to help with communication. Mr Kutch is right, communication is what it all boils down to. Whereas some of the statements I translated are unacceptable to hear from high-end GC, they are normal and routine things to hear from others who also fall under the heading "contractor" - for instance: an experienced and insured sole-prop painter working on a project for you where you have spent your contingency funds but still need to work out a way to get the job finished.

ltcroucher No.1: Nothing --- we didn't hear from our contractor for a month. Problem is WE owe him money. He's pouting because we agreed in the beginning that we will pay his sub-contracts directly if he gives us the invoices. For some reason that is beyond reason, he will not hand in the invoices but would rather we hand him the money based on a typewritten invoice he's shown us (this is after weeks that we kept asking him how much already?). He finally showed up last week because the windows we ordered were delivered, which he paid with his credit card. He's in the house right now working on a coffee bar in the basement. He has not even mentioned a word on the money we owe him. Can any of the contractors here tell us what's going on here? Is our contractor really just a fruitcake? Or is he some kind of Robin Hood who is doing the work for the fun of it, but not for the money? He's done good work, by the way, and we have not received any complaints from the subcontracts either.

navybluemom I'm taking notes! This is the best information I've ever seen. My husband & I are looking to build in the future & every bit of information we can have beforehand will assist us in a smooth transition to a new home built they way we hope for & within our budget plan. Thank you so much everyone for all of the great ideas!

gwen47 Navybluemom, a lot of contractors/builders will have a limited number of house plans that they want you to chose from. They will then just slap the house on the lot however they can fit it. You may know all these things , but I'll post them anyway.

The way the house should be situated depends on your climate, but I've seen so many houses with the garage on the south side or very few windows on the south side. In our Kansas climate, you want the garage on the north to protect from cold winter winds and most of the windows on the south so the sun can warm your house in the winter. East windows are also good, west not so much because of hot afternoon sun. Read everything you can get your hands on about passive energy, etc. Don't hire a contractor unless he is interested in "green" building to keep energy costs down.

I had solar tubes put in two bathrooms with no windows. Everybody loves them and I never have to turn on the light during the day unless it's really dark. I wish I had put one in my kitchen---even though there are windows, it tends to be darker than I like. They don't require framing like sky lights and don't tend to leak.

Make sure that your house has direct access to the back yard---not just through a garage, but a door in the house. That was something I didn't even think about when I bought my current house and it's rather inconvenient to have to walk around the house to get to my garden.

navybluemom Thank you Gwen for the informed ideas! We will be building in upper state New York where we will need all of the light possible from the windows situated in the east & west(and the solar tubes!) that we can get. We also need to place our garage/barn at a 45 degree angle behind the house so that the driveway can come up & bend into it. The house will block the snowdrifts that would be blown from the east. We have so much wind that we definitely want a windmill to generate electricity. We will have a well & septic tank which have their own concerns. I appreciate you sharing your ideas!

JAN MOYER navybluemoon,
Gee, now I am curious where you're building! Are you plunking this house near Oswego, or Carthage?! The rest of us didn't have enough snow to ski on last year, so am wondering do you live in the state now, or are you transplanting? : )

navybluemom We will be transplanting after my husband retires in 2-7 years (depending upon the economy). We put a 1 acre pond in last year, had the 1000+ ft. driveway done this past month & will be putting our well, underground electric, garage/barn, & septic "in" in stages. The house we are planning to build will be a bankbarn-type home as we are high on a hill. It is located in Madison County. We're out in the country but within 20 minutes of town.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. Since you two (Jan Moyer and Navybluemom) are having so much fun conversing, I think it would be best to do it by e-mail instead of on this site. Your comments keep coming into my e-mail, and if it is personal, it really isn't relevant to me, and most likely, others. I respectfully ask that ya'll talk directly by e-mail. Who knows.....maybe a new friendship will transpire! I post this with all good intentions, and no malice at all. Happy Houzzing!

JAN MOYER And of course the most important thing through any and all remodeling or building, is a sense of humor. It will make the glitches bearable, and the exciting progress more so. Hire folks who possess one, and amp yours up as well. : )

gwen47 I am enjoying reading the comments. One can always hit delete if one doesn't want to follow.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. Does anyone know how to opt out of a conversation, once you have joined?

JAN MOYER BELOW THE REPLY IS AN OPT OUT:

Hi janinroch,
New comment on: Contractor Tips: What Your Contractor Really Means

gwen47 said:
"I am enjoying reading the comments. One can always hit delete if one doesn't want to follow."
Reply

Thanks,
The Houzz Team

Stop notifications of new comments on ONLY this ideabook.
Stop notifications of new comments on ALL ideabooks.

Pamela Foster & Associates, Inc. THANKS!!!!!

archmenning How about an article on how a good contractor can avoid clients who lie and/or withhold information because it benefits them! Little bitter about all the 'bad contractor' articles and comments. 9 times out of 10 all problems associated to a project can be traced back to poor information from the homeowner and the fact that they want an A+ job for a C price! Thus they hire a contractor that is C price and provides exactly what the homeowner is paying for. Seems like the homeowner is, at minimum, 50% to blame for all negative experiences.

samiaminc @archmenning....I understand you may have had some bad clients....but many of us,as clients, have had VERY bad experiences....I had to babysit my contractor throughout the entire project. He quoted $255,000 to complete the job. Then once I had reached a total of $260,000 in payments he asked for more and only 1/3 of the job was completed. When I asked how much more to finish he quoted another $255,000. Then I asked how much for him to leave then he hit me with a bill for $103,000. When I gave him the option to receive payments to be paid in full in six months he was OK with that...But when I asked for all the original paperwork in return along with the understanding that another contractor was going to look over his work and if everything was on the up and up he would be paid to the end. If there were multiple discrepencies payments would end. He refused to be exposed for the fraud he was. He refused my agreement. I have since had multiple contractors come in and look things over and they all have agreed I was getting raked over the coals. So in summation there are good contractors and there are crooks. IF you do your job right and charge the customer fairly and follow the rules of a contractors board you will be very successful and gumdrops will fall from the sky and champagne will flow infinitely... Be a crook...and you will end up on these blogs... In Nebraska I could build a grand home for $250,000....This was a basic remodel..i did the demo work and have had to continually clean up and repair behind the crooks. I'm a bit jaded...

JAN MOYER Help me. How does one continue to write checks to a contractor who has quoted a quarter of a million to a finished project.....and you're over the total one third of the way through. What am I not getting in that "a basic remodel" goes to double the original estimate? That is an awful lot of change orders folks!! Something very rotten in Nebraska, or there is only half of a tale here.......sorry.

samiaminc I grew up in the house...my parents sold it to me. there were no changes made after the quote..in the first 6 months all details were worked out and demanded by the contractor. I quit writing checks when the contractor went over quote. Since then I did a lot of talking to a lot of others in the area. The new contractor I hired is working out great. He has actually taken over numerous jobs from previous contractor. We have no contractors board here in Nebraska. I can only complain to the better business bureau. After talking to three different lawyers I was advised NOT to make $103,000 final payment asked for by the contractor. The materials list was $80,000. where did the rest of the money go...??? Billing was very vague but i thought I could trust the guy...I was not given hours list....just charges like...... $15,000 --- LABOR $28,000---materials. just an example..It took his crew two days to put in two windows..they would show up at noon and leave at 430. That was about once or twice a month. the subs got more work done than his guys. I was hiring all of the subs myself except for the tile guy. they were even baffled by the contractor. They were paid seperately apart from the contractor's billing... I was told the job would be done by thanksgiving 2011... they started in april of 2010. contractor kept saying the job would take longer than expected. eventually it was stretched to the fall of 2012 and that's when my wife blew up at him and I tried to work things out. I am obviously way too trusting...

archmenning Clearly, this guy has no clue what he is doing if his contract price is off that much. Curious, how did his original estimate compare to other contractors?

archmenning What was your basis for choosing this contractor? You appear to be a very detailed person. What was so compelling about this contractor, good/bad/indifferent that made you choose him/her...and not someone else?

samiaminc I live in a rural area..my house is 15 miles from the closest big town. I am a farmer. When my wife and I went looking for a builder we called numerous builders. only 2 showed up. only one called us back after looking at the job. He was the one recommended by our decorator. We were kind of stuck with him....he bragged about his guys like they were superstars and he made promises about how much progress he could get done in a short time... This next part is a doozy...he told me he had a wood floor guy ON STAFF that was like an old world craftsman...When the time came to put in the wood floors he told me he had to talk to a few guys to see who had time to work on the job...apparently there are three different guys that get together for coffee. Gary just tossed the job at them.... I had requested ahead of time that we bring in painters first before we install wood floor. That the floor should be the second to last item installed. right before the cabinets. Instead the wood floor had to be covered with rosin paper and (60) cardboard 4X8 panels@$15 a piece.I'm sure I got charged for that as well. The cabinets had to be painted around because my builder did what he wanted to. The tile guy they brought in kept screwing up. He put the wrong tile in the kids bathroom that was intended for the master bath. Then in the master bath he installed the subway tile sideways. Both had to be pulled out and reset.. I'm sure that was at my cost as well. Later that year(FALL 2012) he got killed in a hunting accident a year after his brother died in a fishing accident...bad family luck I guess. When it came time for the addition the builder framed out some windows to a random size instead of working with the window supply guy and us. They had to be reframed. I found out later that my septic tank was fine but Gary insisted that it was bad and needed to be replaced...IT WAS A CONCRETE TANK....he caved it in and replaced it with a poly tank.. I was told it was another one of his schemes. He kept trying to bring in his own plumbers when I had my own. The prices i saw charged by his guys were off the charts. I got charged $400 to put in a floor drain. that's just labor. In Nebraska we can build homes much cheaper than on the coasts and larger cities. but apparently my builder must have thought he was in New York or San Francisco.....I can't wait to see him in court....

samiaminc FOLLOW UP....Of the builders I called...ONE didn't want to travel 15 miles to do the job....ONE thought the job was too big for him...he was the other guy that actually showed up....All the smaller guys I called said they were too busy ...Gary(the builder) only had one other contractor as big as him that did residentials. It was his brother TIM. When their DAD died he left the construction company with them and Gary refused to share ownership with TIM so he went out on his own. I assumed that when the decorator recommended the guy and he had built a business that included his own plumbers,his own glass company, and his own concrete crushing company that he was going to be able to tackle the job and be able to handle it in a quick manner. BOY was I wrong. Apparently he has built his company from lies,deception and theft.

samiaminc TO ALL THE QUALITY BUILDERS OUT THERE...Make sure your state has a contractors board . make sure bad builders are held accountable for ripping off customers and they are removed from the trade. TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS...make sure you ask around about a builder...make sure he has a great reputation....make sure his prices are fair...MAKE SURE you sign a contract ...it protects both you and the builder...Make sure if there are any changes to be made that a change order is put in place. Don't let your contractor overcharge you. Customers don't be fickle...if you ask for a wall to be painted white don't complain when it's painted white and you don't like it. That's what change orders are all about. The builder shouldn't have to eat costs because YOU changed your mind. When we all work together we all win... I just wish I had known about all these rules before I let a bad builder in my home.

gwen47 Samiaminc, my heart goes out to you. When we do a major renovation only once, we learn our lessons too late. That's why this is such a good forum. Hopefully others will learn from your's, mine and other's mistakes, but I know that's not much consolation to you now. We midwesterners are used to working on trust. When I bought my house, I had a verbal agreement with the seller---I never had any doubt that they would hold up their end of the bargain. My loan officer was horrified. You don't get a loan without a contract!

samiaminc where are you from Gwen ?? I am currently living just north of Holdrege Nebraska. 9 times out of 10 in my area a deal is started with a handshake and then we get lawyers to draw up some papers. just to be all legal like. It's too bad there are A-holes out there that can't follow through with their word...A man's word used to be all you needed..

JAN MOYER When you build:
Aside from prices, contracts, change orders and legalities, get very friendly with a copier and a printer. Ask for in advance, a SCHEDULE, of how things will proceed, and when choices will be required of you.
There should be a notebook, binder style with dividers. There should be a name/ photo of every toilet, sink, faucet, tile, counter top, light fixture, cabinet knob and whatever else has a designated room or place, including a drawing of how tile is to be set, the gout color, etc. There should be one notebook for you, one for the builder, and one for the site in a designated place and not to be removed from the site. It should include every possible detail, including the simplest such as one or two hanging rods in a closet. Keep it up to date!! And you still will need to be on that site! Or designate a watchdog in your absence.
Ps on pecking order of floors versus cabinetry. Simple 3/4 inch shim can solve that issue, cabinets are "set" on shims, allowing floors to go last particularly if they are pre-finish variety. Paint? Hah! Find out in advance, how many coats are "included" by the builder. Often you will find you get nothing more than a tinted primer and one coat on those walls, and in FLAT. If you want an additional coat, or an eggshell finish, be prepared for an up charge. You can not plan too much, think too much, or check the site too much. Do not assume, lest...... and you know the rest of that .

riconsd Jan, a very helpful post.

gwen47 Samiaminc, I'm from Newton, Kansas, about 20 miles north of Wichita. A place where your plumber, seeing you in public, stops to inquire whether your toilet is now working properly. I was a little freaked out, after having lived in large cities, when I called the number the previous owner had written on the utility closet wall and the receptionist knew who I was.

"a man's word . . . " or a woman's word :-)

gwen47 Jan, yes, yes, yes. Add the width of grout lines to your list. Extremely important, but easily overlooked. I forgot to do that on the kitchen counter. Will now have to redo the whole thing.

samiaminc Jan, where were people like you when I needed a builder ??...Why can't our government do something helpful and make the steps you mentioned a standard for all builders?? Isn't there a reason for a contractor's board ?? and if they don't comply they can leave the workforce. Instead we get gun control and a socialist healthcare plan....stupid government... Gwen , my electrician will be my new neighbor...my plumbers are friends to me and my NEW builder is an old work buddy. He may be small but he won't screw me like the big contractor did. hopefully my worries are over.

JAN MOYER samiaminc
Oh Lord!!!!! PLEASE NO!! The very LAST thing you would want to turn over to government!! These are the folks with 600.00 $ toilet seats! Look, as it is with every other thing, nothing works better than a free market, where competition for jobs, fairness, integrity, and results grow a business, and client base. Nobody doing a lousy job lasts very long at any endeavor. It isn't a perfect system, but it beats one full of "helpful" regulation. I once built beautiful bookcases in a former dining room to create a study. To an adjacent wall we added french doors to a new sunroom addition filled with windows and a six foot sliding door to the garden. To the Left of the bookcases in the living room...yet another single door to the garden. Upon inspection by the town for C of O on sunroom...the gentleman informed my contractor that "you'll have to make an exit in the bookcase backsplash" WHAT??!!! I laughed in his face, and said "Sir, please do tell me WHY, when faced with five possible ways to exit this study, any sane person would crawl through an 18 inch high "backsplash" above a desk, when there is a door to the left, french doors to a porch, a kitchen exit, and a six foot slider! I would attempt to squeeze through there....WHY? We laughed and he left.
You have to use your head. You have to research, talk to referrals. And the BEST source is generally an ESTABLISHED designer, whose work you have seen, who has access to tradespeople, builders, contractors. They will shorten and straighten a labyrinth of problems, and help you avoid most of them. There IS no perfect system ... but it surely isn't government . That I DO know : ) Too much of this is common sense, organizing your thought process. No different than cooking a complicated meal. Ingredients, good tools, timing,.... and a trip to the market well in advance.

samiaminc ...so... any tips for getting a bad contractor in trouble so that eventually he won't screw more people over..?? I'm so pissed at him I'd love to pay for a billboard warning people about him....only problem would be he could sue me for slander......BUT it's not slander if it's true ....right ??? I found out even his own brother thinks he's a dirtbag...I've thought about having a sitdown with the brother and asking some questions...
...maybe i spend too much time thinking about this...AND JAN.... you're very right about our corrupt government..but there has to be someone that keeps things in check...I'm so frustrated by everything in my life...my government wants my guns(I voted for the NON-communist)... ...my former builder wanted and still wants all my money(there is a pending lawsuit and counterlawsuit)... and now I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall.....what could be next : ) .....

riconsd Bad refz on Angie's List, Yelp start a a website with the the contractors first name and city followed by "sux", always start and end with "It is my opinion...but this is just my opinion"; if you're a couple have the most level headed one fill in the "...".

Corrupt would never be a word i would use to describe P&D, because corruption requires consistency.

JAN MOYER samiaminc
Maybe the important words were yours: "I have since had multiple contractors come in and they all agreed I was getting S____" WHERE were these multiples of GC's at the estimating time of the project? WHERE is the decorator right now, the one who recommended the jerk?
Below, headings removed is the first ROUGH estimate from my contractor on a project from last year, after a one hour initial walk through, with the project in the formulation stage, A mostly cosmetic re-do to a 2500 sq foot empty nester.......Note, it was later embellished a bit as we changed up/added some work, and decided to gut the kitchen. This was simply the initial rough. I include it because it shows a thought process, even though not ONE selection was made at that point. (painter was a separate est).
***********************************************************************************************************

Renovation as per our walk through on 2/24/12 to include:


Remove the existing ceramic tile floors & underlayment throughout the:
Front foyer
Kitchen
Mud room
Bedroom hallway
Powder room

Supply & install Oak hardwood floors, sand, seal & finish on site w/ Glitsa:
Front foyer
Kitchen
Mud room
Bedroom hallway
Powder room
Great room perimeter boarder – remove the existing carpet & dispose

Remove the kitchen soffits & repair the drywall ready for paint

Remove the kitchen track lighting & repair the drywall ready for paint

Supply & install kitchen led under-cabinet/countertop lights
Provide electrical for (2) ceiling lights – dinette/skylight area

Remove the kitchen cabinet valance, doors & drawers
Install provided cabinet replacement doors & drawers

Remove the kitchen countertops
Disconnect the sink & faucet plumbing
Disconnect the island stovetop
Disconnect the wet bar sink & cap the existing drain & supplies
Disconnect and remove the dishwasher

Relocate the kitchen island
Relocate cabinets as per decorator/owner to relocate the refrigerator

Install sink, faucet, disposal, dishwasher & gas stovetop provided by decorator/owner

Supply & install a water line to the refrigerator

Supply & install a great room gas fireplace insert

Dining room
Remove and replace the double doors w/ single door
Remove the ceiling chandelier
Supply & install double doors in opening common to foyer
Install decorator/owner ceiling pendant light

Remove the existing foyer ceiling light
Install the decorator/owner provided foyer ceiling light

Powder room
Remove the existing vanity, toilet, towel bar, mirror & soffit
Supply & install a smooth drywall ceiling
Install decorator/owner provided pedestal sink, faucet & toilet

2nd bedroom / Michaels office
Provide electrical switch & mount for a ceiling fan
Install decorator/owner provided ceiling fan
Remove and dispose the carpet & pad
Supply & install wall a length closet - (2) dbl. 5’ doors w/ mirror inserts
Remove the existing closet door, casing & jamb, infill opening w/ studs & drywall, taped, sanded & ready for paint
Remove the common partition between past closet and master closet, repair drywall ready for paint
Supply & install 4 5/8” primed crown molding
Master bath
Remove carpet, towel bar & paper holder
Install decorator/owner provided floor tile & related
Supply & install a 12” partition left side of vanity to obscure view of toilet
Drywall taped, sanded & ready for paint
Supply & install vanity solid surface countertop
Install decorator/owner provided sinks & faucets

Master closet
Remove the existing shelving
Supply & install shelf & double rods throughout

Replace all outlets, switches and plates throughout the home
Supply & install white deco style devices

Secure and fasten the sub floor throughout the renovation areas to silence squeaks

Clean & remove all debris



Labor & material - $62,248.00