greengirl We did everything right. Never complained once how long the job was taking . When we disagreed about the electrical work to be done, I finally said fine, just do what is on the contract - which is what he wanted. I think he was just really upset with his worker about how long the job was taking. He had hired another worker who never showed up. But when we discovered a major error in the kitchen installation, his son (a co-owner) said we threw them off the job. I called the next day, twice, to find out where our worker was and was told this and that they wouldn't be back until after thanksgiving. What!!!!!????? They were packing up to go at the usual time when I mentioned good, we wanted to go out. For 98% of the time, there has only been 1 worker. The head guy only came 1 time in 5 weeks. The son only 3 times for half a day each time. We were here everyday to answer questions. So glad we have contract, but can see how easily that one MUST read, re-read, list all the materials, don't assume anything, put in time frames, etc.

They left us leaving exposed wires, not finishing bathroom, leaving it a mess, etc.

so that afternoon contractor tells me he's not going to honor contract. Have now put in dispute with credit card.

We hear so often that we need to put it all in writing and think the other party is 'different'. That we'll never have a problem. Lesson learned.

olldbobbi We bought a flipped house. I could literally write a book on all the errors made and short cuts taken by the contractor. When I contacted him about an item that was seriously out of code, his response was "You bought the house 'as-is' and we're not fixing anything". When I made it clear (through our Realtor) that a complaint would be filed with the CSLB he sent a rep out who agreed with me. It (and the outlet behind the fridge which failed twice) was fixed. Regarding the plentitude of other items that he flipped badly, he wrote me the nastiest, rudest letter I've ever seen in my life, which included statements like "You didn't hire me, therefore you have no grounds to file any complaints". I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know I never want to deal with him again. I'll fix these things myself and at least I know it will be done right.

Built By Owner, Inc. These are some great tips Erika! As a general contractor, we do appreciate and strive for clarity and a great relationship with our clients. I have heard horror stories like the ones above and the most practical advice I can offer is to be careful when choosing a contractor strictly based on price. The lower bidder is most likely not the best contractor. Price is not king, reputation is! Quality contractors will give higher prices because they know the details, possible delays, and intricacies involved in quality workmanship. The higher price does not necessarily mean the client will be spending more money in the end; it often means that the client is better informed at the beginning and is less likely to pay for unexpected changes during the project. Also, checking the reputation for the contractor is essential. Speaking to current and past clients will provide an accurate picture of the contractor's trustworthiness. Maintaining excellent client relationships is the best indication of the quality of a contractor.

Jenny Tough These are great tips! As a contractor I can assure you all that we want to have effective professional relationships with our clients and designers. We have businesses to run in a highly competitive and very demanding industry, good relationships make good business sense at the very least.

I also agree strongly with "Built By Owner", if you choose your contractor based solely on price you will open yourself up to the nightmares. Especially when it comes to residential renos when there can be many unforseen issues and you need an experienced contractor who can roll with the punches.

I would add

1. Know what you want - The longer it takes you to make decisions, the longer it takes to finish the job and the contractor still has to pay his guys while you stand around staring blankly at product catalogues. Do your homework before you get into a contract.

2. Be honest with yourself about what you want and how much it costs - I have seen many clients who are scared at the beginning of the project about how much it will all cost. They downplay what they want in discussions with the contractor, saying things like "I don't care too much about that, you can just patch it up" because they are already freaking out about the price before they have hired the team. They will always be there at the end of the project withholding payment because the exact thing that could just be patched up was and now everything is done and they are holding the cheque they want it diamond studded. Not fair.

Finally, contractors get such a bad wrap. You should hear some of the stories we share about bad clients and write a few articles on how to be a good client.

influence7 Jenny Tough, I appreciate your comment and I think that it has a lot of valid standing except for a few things. I think that you might lose business based on what you wrote. Knowing what you want and being honest about what will bother you in the end are very good points. I definitely think that that is something a lot of consumers don't consider right away. That being said, you should still realize that you are in the service industry. Slamming past clients and complaining that things "aren't fair" made me immediately disinclined to engage you. The negative aspect of your post there made me immediately think of you in a negative light and I am tempted to surmise that you are a "can't do" individual. That is really too bad, because I think that you make some good points, but because of your final statement, and condescending tone about being a good client, I find it hard to treat your post with legitimacy.

-Someone who engages service industry frequently...

debmcg3736 Any time you hire a contractor, either a GC or a Landscape Contractor, get referrals from someone that has used them. If you don't have anyone to get a referral from, interview the contractor and ask them for references and call the references before you hire the contractor. You can also call your local Chamber of Commerce for a referral, but that does not replace the interview! Make a list of questions that are important to you, such as how he/she is with follow through, communication and warranty issues. You can save yourself a lot of headaches by being clear in your expectations. Most contractors are good at what they do and are conscientious, but unfortunately, not all.

greengirl Interesting thread here. Valid points on both sides.

We interviewed many contractors and definitely did not choose based on price. Getting referrals is difficult. How do you know it's not a brother-in-law or uncle, etc.?

We have used many contractors of the years. But I think since the downfall in economy things are changed. Handshakes and a person's word or even their signature is worthless. My mother worked for contractor for over 30 years. I work for a roofing contractor for over 7. Our name and integrity were so important we would bend over backwards for customers. That way we would ensure future business.

This contractor said everything right. His store looks right, his website looks great, his employees look right. So what did we do wrong? We didn't itemize our contract. We didn't specify materials. We didn't put in an exit clause. We didn't specify a time for the work to be complete (barring true unforeseen circumstances which should also be specified sadly).

Debmcg said it right about asking a lot of questions. Somewhere there should be those questions listed. And somewhere there should be appropriate answers.

Built By Owner, Inc. Hey Greengirl,
Sorry about your bad experiences. About getting referrals, if contractors are local they can allow you to physically see their current and past work and talk to the clients present at those job sites. We do this all the time and I'm sure the contractor you worked for did it also. Hope your future experiences are better :-) Thanks for sharing with the community.

tearbarrett Influence7, It never ceases to amaze me how selfish people are. The fact that Jenny is in the "service industry" does not make her a mindless drone, designed to do the will of the consumer devoid thought and emotion. It actually isn't fair that a person would request something only to hold out cash at the end because of the poor decision they themselves made. I find your comment to be harsh, and without legitimate reasoning. I would use Jenny because I am a lover of honesty. A trait all but most by most consumers and suppliers.

greengirl Hmmm - I just reread Jenny Tough and influence7 comments. I think Jenny is presenting some reality based situations. Being in the process right now, I fully appreciate what she is saying. It IS difficult for some people to be straight up. A lot of times too, if there are 2 people in a household making decisions, 1 may say 1 thing to a contractor and/or designer and the other something else.

That being said, everyone I think looks for a job to be done right, not necessarily diamond studded.

I think some comments here have been taken the wrong way. But that's the point of this thread - misinterpretations, miscommunication and Miss(Ed) Opportunities. Ok, so maybe that last one was a stretch.

Jenny Tough Thanks Tearbarrett! I was surprised by how personal that response got, it was kind of you to help me out.

I work very hard for my company and I love working with our clients. We have an excellent reputation and I think we deserve it. We work hard to maintain great communication with everyone we work for and with and when we meet inexperienced clients we spend a lot of time working with them to help them understand the implications of various decisions in terms of cost, time line, environmental sustainability and of course functionality and code compliance. It's one of the aspects of the job I enjoy most. A lot of residential clients will not be able to work with contractors with these skills and I thought that this article was aimed at giving pointers to people who have less experience and are dealing with contractors who are perhaps less flexible or more traditional in their approach to their role.

I am sorry if I came across as condescending, or "can't do" but I do feel that there is a lot to be learned from contractors, from the guys on their tools, and that their voices are rarely given sufficient hearing. They are highly skilled, highly motivated craftsmen and women who work under challenging conditions in challenging times. There are plenty of cowboys and conmen out there (in all industries) and, having been conned a few times myself, I feel for those affected and hope that regulations and human decency can control it.

I thought this was a great article, with really good points that will help people develop good working relationships. However, the fact that there is a need to tell people how to treat their contractors properly suggests there is something very wrong. How would you treat your doctor or your stock broker? Need a magazine to tell you that? No, because we respect these people even though doctors can be charlatans and stock brokers have managed to destroy the world's economy. When you find a good contractor, treat them with respect, they have skills and knowledge you don't, that's why you hire them, that's the crucial first step in making your contractors your allies.

BuilderFish You forgot what I would've made #1, and that's "CHANGES cost money" or it's close cousin "Time is money". Put another way, if you aren't being charged for changes post contract, then the contractor is doing you a favor gifting. Changes affect schedules and that affects everyone involved in the project. Changes typically cost someone money, if not, then someone is either absorbing or taking a shortcut.

Finally, I'll add for both the client and contractor, there should never be anyone on the project who says, "I wish I had known." Hearing that is a symptom of weak management and failed proactive communication. Everybody, especially the client, should know what is happening ahead of time.

tsudhonimh Jenny - So why don't YOU write one?

Take 5 clients who caused their own misery, explain what happened and how it could have been avoided or at least minimized.

riconsd Why are there so many articles on being a good client and none on being a good contractor?

A & D Glass Inc. Jenny, I appreciate your comments too. I've learned a lot about being a good customer from my own customers. If I don't like a price, I don't say "I don't know how you can sleep at night!", and if I think I can do it myself, I don't say "It's not rocket science!". Two actual quotes, lol.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Great Article Erika !

I have bookmarked it and will pass it through to my clients if ever needed. ☺ I also liked it on facebook and shared it on my facebook page.

Thanks,

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

Linda Very useful comments here. I think Jenny is being realistic, not overly negative. Bending over backwards and being a "can do" person can easily lead to a client having unreasonable expectations over the costs. Sure, I can probably make this piece of woodwork almost exactly match that other one, but that service isn't free. If I have to bring in 4, 5, 6 or more cans of stain and make a dozen color samples to get just the right look, I'll do it. But, I have a cost in providing that service that extends beyond the time required. I have to know what materials I can mix and then pack my samples, load and unload them, mix them, wait while the client decides which one best matches the desired look, and finally go buy the materials needed to get the quantity required. A realistic client doesn't expect that level of effort is included in the base price of staining woodwork.

Another typical problem is the client wants to cherrypick a bid and only pull out one or two small items and expect the same deal as for a more involved project. For example, I might fill some small holes and touch up the paint on a wall for $25. That might be a realistic price as an add-on to other work already being done and I'll add on a bit of money to a bid and take care of some miscellaneous tasks for a client. Hanging curtain rods or towel bars, touching up paint in a different room, changing out a door lock are all small tasks if we're already there with the tools loaded in the truck, the gas and food already paid for, and just adding an extra 20 to 30 minutes to the day. If one little task is all you want done, expect to pay me $75 because that's the amount I need to get to cover the direct and indirect costs of dropping my project and running across town to handle a small task.

jcufaude While these points are helpful, the relationship is a two-way street. I'm tired of reading that contractors aren't necessarily people people and that we should cut them some slack. They are in a customer service industry. If they want respect from clients they need to also respect our time, be more proactive with their communication, and understand that what seems like "something a client should just live with" sounds like an excuse for inferior work.

akar engneers good tips.

Fini Design One thing I found out as a designer is people feel uncomfortable checking references. DON"T. A good contractor like Jennytough will have plenty of people who say "Use her." I know another person thought her negative but I can tell you the absolute worst contractors are charming, not telling us what we don't want to hear. MOST people don't do their homework and the situations can be heartbreaking. Also, a good contractor knows what to charge. Pay him or her, because you will pay either way. Upfront and get the job done, or later on with drama.

Susan Keck I am sitting here typing while my house is getting renovated. They have been the absolute best. Old Village Restoration contractor Sam Lisi arrives every morning, talks to me nicely explains what they are going to accomplish today and then leave the crew here to work. They are polite and cheerful and now call me Miss sue and if I ask them to do a little extra thing they say that they will do anything I want. Its super cute. I am managing slightly by being here and adding my comments very minimally but selecting granite, where speakers go, lighting, etc. When they had to work last saturday to stay on schedule, I ordered them pizza and on Friday night at 6 30 pm, offered them one beer. I think I might make cookies this afternoon. These people are really good and professional and it is very easy to be nice to them because they are being nice and polite to me.

tjspot after many renovations, I know the secret is mutual courtesy and respect. Despite best planning, you will make changes and I expect to pay for them. However, I also know tradespeople don't love undoing and redoing. My tip ... to go along with those inevitable sticky notes asking for adjustments, attach a coffee card with a note of thanks. I've never had a trades person grumble for any change I've asked for . in fact they would encourage me to find a change to make as they were running low on their free coffee deal...

grizzly The client must do their homework and locate a good contractor. They are out there. I know because I use a very good contractor. If you are reasonable and treat them well like skeck does, you are well on your way to actually enjoying watching the work on your home progress.

I talk to the contractor every day that his men are here. We are both flexable. I have deleted small steps in our original plans and have asked him to do small things not in the original conatract. Neither of us has asked to change the cost of the job. I treat the contractor and his men with respect and receive the same in return.

The day may come when the contractor and I have a disagreement, but I assure you that disagreement will be worked out with civility and compromise.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch skeck, tjspot and grizzly pointed it already out.

Treat your ontractor(s) and his men like you wants to be treated and you'll receive the same in return. Actually everyone pursuits to gain recognition/acclaim for what he is doing. And that's the key. Praise him for his work. Be not just polite! Tell your contractor honestly when you like/love what he has created. And tell him also in a good manner when you are not so satisfied with what he is doing, so he gets the change to do better next time.

Hear a short story what happened to me. We just finished a bathroom where we had to add another layer of plywood to stabilize the weak floor. In result of this the door had to be cut at the bottom. So my client was asking me to cut his bathroom door 3/4 of an inch more so his rug would not anymore moved away when he opens the door.

That means the Door had to be shortened a bit more than 1 inch. I told my client that I don't have the right tools with me to shorten his door that much properly and to his satisfaction and suggested therefore to take it to Home Depot to let them cut it. (The Home Depot was just 5 minutes away.) He agreed and I drove away. At Home Depot arrived I must learn that their policies are not allow to cut customer doors. So I called around to find someone who is capable to shorten my customer's door properly. My search was successful so I brought the door right away to this place.

Back at my customer, I learned my lesson. My client has bad experiences from past contractors and as a result of this he is kind of a control freak and very anxious. He wants to know every step I do which is totally ok for me. I was thinking I do my client a favor however he was not happy about my "effort" He told me he had want to do his own research an thereafter decide how to proceed.

Most clients like it when the contractor solves their problems in an uncomplicated way however I learned from my mistake and will call my client in the future to let him decide how he want's to proceed. If he hadn't told me this, I would still think I did him a favor.

Regards,

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

frenchdecor I don't want even go through all my bad experience with contractors who rip your hands and legs, working in leisure pace pretending it such a time consuming job therefore their price is reasonable. Honestly, I have couple of friends who told us their bosses require extend work time, for example, for 2 days, though it could be done in 1 day. One should just hear how many ooopses they quietly covered up. Plumber who wanted $1000 to repair our clogged drain explained to me what problem he think is. I explained it to my husband and it took him 5 hours, including parts purchase, and $39 to repair with zero experience. The guy had knowledge, he was right about the problem, but does it really worth so much? I believe, for him it would take much less time. Another aspect is "to ask the right questions", nonsense, I am not specialist in that certain field, how I know what to ask and put it down in the contract if contractor didn't bring it up? I do my homework, always prepare myself, yet have never avoided pitfalls. It is mystery for me how come posted job requirements for hiring are over head and why we have so much lousy workers! I want to think there must be good contractors, too bad I was not lucky. I assumed it is a big city problem, contractors of all sorts will find plenty more customers, that why they don't care about reputation.

greengirl Well we may be down to beating a dead horse now on this subject, but I think the info here is so invaluable that it should be made required reading in the remodel section.

fredericklc I realize this story has nothing to do with contractors, but it does have to do with providing a service. When I was younger, and watching every penny, my little car developed a big problem. I had no idea where to take it and ended up at a one man/one owner car fixer place. The guy was working on my car and it was a hot day. I decided to get a drink from the machine and asked him if he would like something, too. He did, I got it, he finished with my car, I paid a more than reasonable fee, I drove away. Years later I met this man at a social function. He remembered me because I bought him a drink. He told me then that because I did that I saved myself a decent amount of money. He said that he knocked off 25% on the price the instant I made my offer. That made me really glad that I listened to my Mom when she taught me to be polite and aware of the needs of others. You never know when your actions are going to make a difference in the lives of others, or in your own life.

Ladin Rameez good tips