Rough Linen I second what you say about smaller appliances - bigger isn't better! I love the slimmer European profiles.

lyvia Run through these scenarios in your kitchen plan to look for awkwardness -

Bring in groceries, set them down, put away cans, frozen, fridge and pantry items.
Get out dishes and set table.
Get food to prep zone, chop and mix, cook or bake, and serve to table.
Clear dishes, load dishwasher, empty dishwasher.
If one person is prep/cooking, can another empty the dishwasher? Can another get to the fridge and microwave to nuke a snack? Can another sit and chat? Are there safe places for toddlers or animals or elderly?
If the coffeepot draws traffic, where will it go?
And don't forget the trash/recycle needs a home.

scarbowcow Living in Europe, I'm stuck with the 'apartment size' range and I HATE it. Though I live alone, I bake frequently for colleagues and friends, and having to use tiny baking sheets, not being able to cook more than one tray of cookies at once - I curse my small oven regularly and can't imagine being able to have friends over for a meal that would require cooking more than one thing in the oven at a time. I dream of an oven that will take at least a half-sheet pan. An Easy-Bake oven was only fun when I was 6.

kellystevens I cook every day and once had a job developing recipes for a living, so I would say I'm an expert cook and baker. Here's my experience, in case it helps people planning a remodel:

My last house came with a "dream kitchen", including a SubZero fridge and Viking range. It also had a wall of windows, so all the cabinets were base cabinets. It featured a big island work surface with more storage underneath. I found I got very tired of crouching down to peer into drawers and shelves to find all my ingredients and put groceries away in those lower shelves. Getting out a glass or plate meant bending over every time to get them out of the drawers - I have a bad back and this really lost it's charm after a short time, though I loved the way the kitchen looked. The wall of windows was so bright that it was uncomfortable to work in the kitchen on sunny afternoons, herbs would wilt and butter would melt if left on the counter. The Viking range was fun to cook on but very difficult to clean - taking apart all those heavy cast iron pieces and giving them a scrub every few days was enough to discourage me from cooking. Plus, the igniter broke, as did the gauge in the oven. The fridge developed a leak that required several services and ruined the wood floors. It also was so big that I tended to forget things that were pushed to the back until I started to smell them :( . So from my experience, those professional appliances aren't all they are cracked up to be.

My current house has a much smaller kitchen, which meant I had to get smaller Euro appliances. Now I find it is so much more enjoyable to use than my big old kitchen. The 27 inch Bosch oven holds up to three 13x18 baking sheets, or a 20 lb turkey if needed. The 21-inch Gaggenau cooktop gets 10k BTU of fire power and can fit 4 pans cooking at once, plus all the parts are easy to wipe down, lift off and pop into the dishwasher. My counter depth fridge is only 17.4 cubic feet, but so far I haven't had any trouble fitting all my groceries in it. The food seems to keep at least as well as it ever did in the old SubZero, and I spend less than $2k for the fridge, instead of $8k for a SubZero.

To me the key to workable design is that there are 3 ft. counters on either side of both the cooktop and the sink, so there is always enough space to work. I also think it's essential to have an extra deep/wide sink to keep the dirty bowls and pans out of the way. I've prepared holiday dinners for 15 people, baked 144 brownies at a time for a bakesale, and made 48 jars of tomato sauce in one session so I would say it's sufficient for all of my cooking needs. I do have limited cabinet space, but this forced me to edit my supplies and kitchen tools down to the essentials, which is actually a simpler and more efficient system.

Hope this helps others considering all the options out in kitchen remodel land. Really think about the comfort of how you will use the space. Take your time in planning, and I would recommend hiring a real professional kitchen designer - money well spent.

JAN MOYER Ladies you are so right! The size will not change the taste of your food, only you can do that!! I will add that the microwave, if you have children, needs special consideration. You want it away from your stove, and low enough to be reached safely by young hands, near the fridge for after school snacks to be warmed, and out of your personal prep space. Many times a layout is driven by the "time" of your life.

sclawson Love all these comments that bigger is not necessarily better and "designer" is not necessarily functional. We moved from a 2000sf two-storey house to a 1400sf one-storey condo. The move was meant to be temporary while we built a 2200sf one-storey house. But we decided to stay in the condo and renovate it. We are in our mid-50s, semi-retired, and I have mobility issues. Less space to cover makes so much more sense. We use every nook and cranny of our 1400sf and are always looking for ways to make it more efficient, but we sure learned a lesson that less is more.

mrsben Some excellent points Vanessa. Also agree with many that Kelly Stevens has made, particularly that being the amount of counter space flanking the sink and stove.

A tad off topic but still focusing on appliance placement, can some one tell me why Manufacturers as of late insist on putting such unsightly large protruding handles on their appliances that IMHO only add to the dilemma of laying out a small functional workspace. Hopefully that doesn't sound petty but I just do not see the purpose of and/or for them.

sclawson Good question, mrsben. I like a beefy, well-styled handle that aids me in gripping and balance, but opted for a clean-front dishwasher because of space concerns in layout of my kitchen. The clean-front cost me about $90 less. The other problem I encountered is that each manufacturer has different handles. Each of my kitchen appliances is from a different manufacturer--some make better fridges, stoves, dishwashers, etc.--so those handles can start making things look a mess.

specialk405 I have also designed several kitchens where there were too many handle designs. I was able to order handles through my appliance salesperson to match. Many appliances have the same sized hardware so it is inter changeable. I was able to match all of my handles even though I have five different company's appliances. Your only out the price of an additional handle but, it looks so much nicer and streamlined.

Lorrie Ney I have to agree MrsBen...large handles mean more cleaning work, and more bumps and bruises. They also often wiggle lose and present cleaning issues if food drops into them. My other complaint is with oven window glass becoming stained during the cleaning process and being unable to see through it from that time forward. I appreciate the other comments about lower cabinetry being hard to reach down to. I also find this a burden as I'm aging. Pop up cabinetry helps, as do slide out drawers, etc. But I cannot see having my microwave below waist level. Having 50 year old eyes, and reading timers easily with bi-focals doesn't go very well. ONE HAS TO HAVE PLANS FOR AGING if your going to stay in a home into your advanced years. Be prepared for this!

Amy Wombwell I think the key is as Iyvia said, asking the right questions. How do you live today and how will you be living in the space for the next decade. Some of the best cooks I know have lousy kitchens; it is the cook not the kitchen that makes great food.

DO NOT create kitchen purgatory where all the family activities are happening in another room and you are shut up in the kitchen box. That will sap away your love of cooking.

If your kids are at the age to be involved in after school activities you need a warming drawer, so that meals can be held. Can your children be nearby working on homework without being under foot.

Coats, book bags and sports bags end up in the kitchen, do you have a tidy drop zone? Do you have space for a snack area?

If you entertain, your guest will often follow you to the kitchen and stay. Can you create a space where they can "keep you company" and you can still work unobstructed. Can you keep the messiness of cooking/serving/cleanup under control without having to completely clean up the kitchen. I don't want to do the dishes right after dinner I want to visit. the dishes can wait, but not if everyone is looking at them.


What kind of food do you want to make? If you don't really like to cook, don't build a designer kitchen, spend that money else where. Good quality stock cabinets with some trim upgrades, great looking hardware, good counter tops and nice, but not chef quality appliances will create an great kitchen for thousands less.


Go look at your friends' kitchens and ask them what they did right and what they did wrong. It is very interesting to hear about what a pain in the neck some really cool feature is, and why they wouldn't buy it next time. You will also hear about some suggestion they almost didn't take which has turned out to be the best.

Ask people who are 5 and 10 years ahead of you what matters to them now, toddlers are only toddlers for a few years, don't let your design get to stuck in what is happening now, good kitchen design should last for years.

Somerset Interior Design All great advice, but when in doubt, an experienced/ credentialed Kitchen designer can help you successfully incorporate your needs into any size kitchen, and avoid mistakes.

Francesca Okay, I hear what everyone is saying and I am going to say something that might be unpopular.... Why do kitchens need to be the gathering place? I go to wash the dishes and have to wander halfway across a kitchen/island/mile long 'resting place' to put the dishes away (in their logical place near the stove/dining area.

Mercifully, I no longer live in that home. I am NOT happy with large kitchens. I personally wish I had an alley kitchen. I loved that when I lived in an apartment, and that was the best kitchen I have ever had. The sink was relatively close to the stove (perfect for someone who cooks a lot of Italian, boiling noodles requires a lot of water) and the fridge was too.

I could look over the sink to the next room and chat when I was facing the stove. It was perfect.

Of course, that's perfect for me. Even the house I am buying doesn't have that. Oh well... (rant subsided).

ginny1805 I am not a fan of the big kitchens with islands. They don't seem to have a decent work triangle, you have to walk around that island to get to an appliance, and the pot filler at the stove is nice til you have to lug that pot of boiling water around the island to the sink to empty it. As for having a kitchen big enough to entertain while you cook, I don't want everyone in the space while I cook. They can sit in some other room and chat til it's on the table, or you can hire a cook/server for the evening. I've done that and it's so much better! I think the suggestion of talking to others who have already lived with a remodeled kitchen is worth money in the bank!

patscats2 Numbers 1, 2, 4 and 5do not look like they could function well. I wouldn't want to have to walk around an island to get to the stove, sink or fridge. The one with the sink in the very corner would be very uncomforatble for me to stand at. Having to walk a long distance to get to the sink, stove or fridge would wear me out. My kitchen is small, but very functional. I have a huge L. shaped island/counter as the 3rd and 4th. walls in my kitchen. I have tons of counter space to prepare and lay things out. The distance between my sink, fridge and stove is about 6 ft. in either direction. It's a perfect triangle.. I also have a seperate walk in pantry so I don't need a huge amount of cabinets. Love the vintage kitchen, that is so cool.

jlwhite At least as I work, the refrigerator is by far the least important part of this triangle. The important triangle is prep/stove/sink.

onthefence I think lyvia's list should be more of a benchmark than the 'triangle'. So many kitchens are designed by the rules of where things should go. If those shoulds don't make sense for your family or your lifestyle, break the rules and do what works for you.

Ellessebee specialk405, I am so interested in your comment about getting matching handles! I am working on a kitchen - and yes, I have consulted 3 kitchen designers (only 2 actually "certified") and there are still several major problems no one can solve. Regardless, though, no one has come up with your suggestion! Whom did you ask about handles - a retailer? distributor? How would i do it?

specialk405 I work with a professional appliance vendor, your builder should be able to give you the name of one in your area. You want the pro/builder side of the appliance store. They know what appliances you can mix and match to get a pretty seamless look without having to use an entire line of appliances from one company. You can also look online at the appliance's spec sheets. You can find different versions of many appliances along with different handles.
Another trick is put cabinet doors over some of the appliances and use handles that match the rest of your kitchen hardware.

Ellessebee specialk405, my builder and architect have only recommended the retailers I've already been to, and none have suggested the option you proposed. Can you recommend someone - even to sell to me long-distance? I am having particular difficulty finding a refrigerator that will work for me and will be using appliances from different manufacturers. I really like the idea of matching the handles, as you suggest. Also, if you or anyone else out there can identify a refrigerator with a left hand hinge I would be very appreciative. First choice would be all-refrigerator (like the Electrolux Icon, Thermador Freedom or similar) but under $3000. (Prefer free-standing, can be standard depth, up to 36" wide - would like about 20 cuft refrigeration). Second choice would be bottom mount freezer. Third choice would be a French door model (where swing is not an issue) but I want a large proportion of fresh food refrigeration relative to freezer. (Also prefer no ice/water that take up too much space.) I will have a free-standing freezer as well, and really want a free-standing all-fridge unit. I haven't been able to locate anything in my target price range and it's so frustrating to see exactly what I want with the wrong door swing! (Except, of course, for the built-in models that come any way you want for the price of a small car!) It used to be that doors were reversible in the field or everything came both left and right. Now someone seems to have decided that all kitchens should use a right-hinged fridge! I welcome suggestions - thanks.

specialk405 I will check with my pro contact and let you know about the handles and the refrigerator. He may know someone in NY. I will also check and see if he is able to sell outside the Charlotte NC area.

Ellessebee I think I have to raise my budget for the fridge....I appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks.