World Contracting LLC Great advise for the DIY'er or the homeowner who would like to plan out their own design prior to searching out a qualified contractor.

looking forward to part 2.

sacapuntaslapioz a great resource I have often used is the tile ready pans. they are made to fit over existing tubs and take a lot of guesswork out.

stlouisgaltoo I have thought about getting rid of the tub for a large shower. My bathroom s small and I hate cleaning tubs BUT this is the only bathroom in the house. How will ths affect resale? We need a complete gut and remodel. I will contract this project out vs DIY. Has anyone gone this route nd f so, were you happy with your decision? Esp. With only one bathroom.

catsandroses PLEASE READ THIS IF YOU HAVE AN OLDER HOME!! we did just the same thing with a first floor bath. Great for someone who can't get upstairs, needs a temporary first floor living space, etc. or so we thought..
We tore out an old fiberglass tub/surround. We do most of the work ourselves.. in this case, for a shower pan we called in a plumber who informed us of two things.. first, we needed the inside width to be 30" minimum and second the drain for a shower for our state building code must be larger than that of a tub. We would have had to rip up the floor, heating, window trim for the former and for the latter, it would have been thousands in plumbing as the basement access was not there without ripping out ceilings, adjacent bays to access, etc..
Had we known this up front, we would have kept the tub and changed other things.. as it stands now, we have a new tub and are waiting for the tile guy to take a look. the project will have gone from 2 weeks to now 2+ months. so before you leap into this wonderful idea do your homework!!

stlouisgaltoo Good info catsnroses! We live in a 1920's farmhouse.

Angelle Powell Perfect timing for this article. In the planning stage to gut our master bath and convert it from a tub to a curbless shower. Thanks for the great information.

paulbeck1942 I just finished a similar project and fortunately did most of the things you recommended. The only thing you didn't mention is to plan for an exhaust fan.

idsign Showers typically need larger drains that tubs have. Keep in mind you that may have to pull up or trench the floor.

patricia beharry That is my next project.

Coby Smit it is such a terrible thing to have a small dingy bathroom. These bathrooms are beautiful!

jtrbug I did this three years ago. I've always said the only the a long hot soak , a glass of wine, candle light and wonderful music can't cure is probably cancer. But at 60, I knew that getting in and out of a tub for a short person might not be the safest thing in the world. We took the small room down to the studs and to the joists. I wanted a walk in shower, but no room. I did get a hand-held shower head plus a rain shower. It's a classic black and white bathroom and my husband is so totally jealous. After we finish the rest of the projects, he's begging for his to get the same, simple easy to clean, easy to use treatment.

Marina Klima Goldberg - Klima Design Group This is really a great post. I would recommend that if swinging door is problematic why not use a sliding door – it does the same job plus it saves space.

frenchdecor Good tips are given in the article, but still you must do more homework.
What's wrong to have bath tub combined with shower, especially in small older houses? More likely at some point of your life or some days, or re-sale you will need bathtub. Unless you have just one bathroom and disability (difficulty to get into bathtub) and it's your lifetime home I would never get rid of bathtub. If you don't like to clean bathtub you'll find more challenging to clean all grout (yellowing if not cleaned frequently) and clear shower glass. We built a shower in the basement with 6x8" tile on the walls, and 2x2" on the floor, and clear shower door for my husband and it is clean once a week only, as I don't have housemaid who would clean it once-twice a day, the grout already yellowed on lower parts, in 2 years. Now I think maybe we should do it with glazed, dark, huge slabs and frosted glass for easy clean and better look in between cleaning.

dawnbc1 My master bathroom is completely gutted in all directions as we speak. This is the exact project I'm taking on (with a contractor;) over the next 6 weeks. Ripped out that massive jetted, elephant-sized, tile- enclosed tub and tiny shower. Soon: large glass-faced, curbless shower with a beautiful view of the Oregon hills), heated floor, silent fans, bench seat, new everything. ahhhh.
The final inspiration was a picture I saw on house. It gave me the impetus to get going. Picture the bench where the tub is in the picture with a wall of windows and you have the reno. I was a bit nervous about losing the tub even though I haven't had an actual bath in a decade. silly, really.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Great Comments Everyone. I though this would be a popular topic. We do so many tub to shower conversions and everyone loves them. I would not worry about re-sale at all. With a population that's aging this type of renovation can make your home more appealing to seniors, especially if the curb is built low or removed.

In Canada a shower drain can use a 1.5" drain line. In the USA a 2" line is required. Plumbing inspectors are not trolls! Go talk to them. You might be surprised that they give you permission to build your shower.

If you need to take out a tub for your Mom or Dad. Maybe your wife blew out her hip. Do your really think the city is going to demand you can not change this? No chance. Just pick up the phone and call.

If the showers I build work up in Canada why would they not work in the US?

Often we test the flow rate of a new or old drain line. To do this we make a sump out of a 5 gallon bucket and connect it to the new shower drain. Then we use water pressure full blast to run down the shower drain. I have yet to find a shower drain that can not handle 12 GPM.

Most shower fixtures are regulated to 2.5 GPM.

Walking into City Hall and explaining that you have a rain head and hand held capable of producing max 5 GPM and a single thermostatic control valve is one thing.

Walking in and describing 6 body jets, a rain head, a hand held and more with three thermosatic control valves is a different beast.

All showers are not created equal. Most showers will work fine with a 1.5" drain line provide it is installed right and pitched properly. How do you know? Test it!!

JW

cherielou We did this very thing a few years ago to our small master bath. It's amazing how much bigger the bathroom feels now that the tub/sliding doors are gone. Instead we have a big shower with a pretty glass door. Really, the room just opened up and seems twice as big as before. The glass door swings in rather than out, so no problem there. When I would rather soak in a tub, I use the guest bathroom upstairs.

Angelle Powell We are doing our tub to shower conversion because I have joint problems that will continue to get worse. Last time I tried to soak in the tub I needed help to get out. My bathroom is small, so getting rid of the tub will give more floor area, and I won't have to step over the tub. Thankfully, we have two baths in our house and the other has a tub so now worries with resale.

timmermom The one thing I wish we had in our home we built seven years ago, is a beautiful guest bath. We have a master bath with a really nice soaker tub and in the guest bath wanted just a shower but were talked out of it as we were told we wouldn't have a "2 bath" home. In the end while we were out of town, the builder put in fiberglass tub shower unit. It not only looks cheap, no one ever uses the tub...we are empty nesters and have our own tub in the master bath that is seldom used. Our plan is to stay in this house...forever, and to totally remodel our guest bath!

books15 We did this for a large unused corner tub. Our shower is so wonderful. Attached is the after and before photos.

kestral We removed the tub off our downstairs bedroom and put in just a shower stall very much like the first photo. We did it with my elderly parents in mind, so the could have easy access when they visited. However, I just broke my wrist, and I cannot tell you how much easier it has made our lives to have this easy access shower stall for ourselves! So glad we did it! The only thing I would add is make sure you have grab bars installed. We may all be handicapped one day.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. @ Cherielou - Your door must swing out as well as in. If your door can not swing out it is a huge safety violation. If you where to need medical attention and had passed out your body could block the door from opening.

I would re-visit the installation to be safe. JW

stuckhere Good advice on checking the drain size!
Also look at the Schluter products to convert a tub to a shower. They have shower kits that inlcudes a sloped pan, drain, and material to make a truly waterproof shower. Most tile stores carry it or can order it.

Don't forget to waterproof everything before putting tile on. Water will go right through natural stone, grout, and cement board. There are several products to do this such as RedGard, Hydroban, Kerdi. Do it right, do it once.

graciel57 When I put the addition onto my house 13 years ago, I put in a combination laundry and shower room. It's about 11' by 5', with the laundry at one end where you enter the room, then a three foot opening into the toilet/sink/shower area. The toilet is directly behind the two foot wide divider wall so you never see the toilet from anywhere outside of the room even if doors are open. There is a corner sink, and a drain in the center of the floor, and a shower head. The floor is tiled as are the walls all the way to the ceiling, where there is a three by three foot wide skylight.. No curbs, just a very slight slope to the drain. I LOVE it. I would never do a "regular" bathroom again, unless I had more room in the house than I knew what to do with (have never had that problem yet, however). I can't recommend this enough for people with small houses. In any other house this would have to be only a half bath, because there would be no room for a normal shower stall, let alone a tub. I did this mainly because I wanted a bathroom that would be easily handicap accessible (I"m getting older), but it works for everyone.

peemum You definitely want to be sure you don't want a tub. We are elderly and are use to taking showers but now I have arthritis and would give my eyeteeth to be able to soak in the tub but with my bad knees I can't get in or out of a regular tub. I was hoping to win the kitchen but have decide to start saving for a walk in tub. This would be heaven for me. Can't wait.
Have a good day all!

Sigrid @FrenchDecor
1) If your water has a lot of limescale, install a filter. You can get filters for your shower head, or put it in your water line. Filtering the whole house will save a lot of money and hassle.

2) Get a squeegee and ask everyone to squeegee after a shower. It takes little time (it doesn't have to be a very diligent job) and it will make a real difference in limescale deposits and mold.

Carol Mayhew If you only have 1 bathroom, I would keep the tub. I am a Realtor and for resale have found that you need the tub for babies and small children. This would narrow your "buyer pool".

midmodfan We bought our current house as a retirement home, single story, relatively small (1500 sq.ft.). The two bathrooms are tiny. One had a small shower with lots of unused space right next to it, and the other had a large tub with ample storage space on both sides. As we never used the tubs in previous homes, we put in large flat shower pans (white enameled steel) in both bathrooms with frameless clear glass sliding doors. In the larger of the baths (which is 'mine') we even gained space for a stacked washer and dryer. We used large rectangle glossy white wall tiles in the showers, thus minimizing grout lines. (I originally wanted white glass panels instead of wall tile, but that was just too expensive.)

The baths are now very practical and look much larger than before. I am convinced that having no tub in the house can be a disadvantage, but we don't plan to sell and two showers work so well for us.

lctpdc Would LOVE to be able to do this, but resale would be impacted as we have only one full bath. From past experience, tho....note that the space surrounding the toilet is often mandated by code, so check your local authority when you are planning your reno...15" may not be sufficient.

jshilander Our home was built in the 1920s and has the traditional small tub spaces. We are thrilled with the conversion of a bathtub to a shower completed several years ago. The interior of the shower is 2'5" x 3'7" (this doesn't include a 6" tile curb for the glass door). It feels plenty roomy. The remaining length (which was the rest of the length of a traditional size tub) allowed for a custom piece of furniture where before there was no storage. I write our story because one of the advantages, I feel of not converting the entire length of the bath tub to a shower as our plumber/friend suggested is that for our purposes, that stall would have been much larger than necessary and a waste of precious space. I don't care to have more tile and grout to care for than necessary so it works very well for us.

I would love to see an article on how to dress up/modernize the traditional shower/bathtub combination. We have a second even smaller bathroom that needs serious help. Because our home has lots of stairs and isn't probably that appealing to an aging couple, we are reluctant to get rid of the tub. I need some new ideas on this score!

riconsd Very practical advice

excalabor Thank you John, for a great article with very practical advise. My husband and I own a glass shop in Victoria, BC and your comments cover all the questions we are asked on a daily basis. I am going to print this off and pass it on to all of our customers.

Britastina Brooks15,
I laughed out loud when I saw your pictures. You had the EXACT same bathroom I have. I have been planning my new bathroom with a contractor for over a year now. I plan to remove the existing tub and shower just as you did (we have 2 other bathrooms that have tubs) and put a built-in tv and fireplace on that empty wall where the tub was. Under the tv/fireplace will be a built-in bench with shelves for towels. The existing glass shower will be removed and have stepped down tiled wall facing the sink/vanity. We will then be able to wheel into the bathroom, and around into the shower (not now - hopefully 10 - 15 years from now). My husband just wanted to install one of those walk-in tubs until he was told they cost $11,000. The beauty is that none of the plumbing has to be moved. Love what you did. Thanks for the help! I owe you one!

ringtons Finally, the moral support we need to ditch the cumbersome jetted tub (we call it "The Dust Bowl"). The shower in our master is so tiny it's absurd. Like books15 above we are putting in a big shower on the same footprint as the corner tub, just working out the big window details as that's the only natural light in the room. The tiny shower becomes a linen closet - bonus! Here's to making a builder home work for real people. P.S. folks, check out John Whipple's houzz site - tons of great ideas there. http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/users/johnfrwhipple

Lawrence Martin According to the International Building Code, a minimum of 15" is required from the center of the toilet to any obstructions on either side. There are also a few other code guidelines that must be met, such as ceiling height and clearances in front of the fixtures. It would be reasonable to contact your local building department before planning your bathroom remodel.

tgordo49 Warning: Without a door or even the dreaded curtain you will feel drafts that make it seem much cooler in your new shower!

Kim Vale I am going to replace my yucky dust collecting whirlpool tub and oddly shaped shower with a large shower. Big problem will be that I have a roof gable that juts into the ceiling of the shower. Wondering what this will look like once I have the bathtub ripped out? Can't meet the ceiling height standards noted above...

kellystevens I'm planning a bathroom remodel and the main thing I want in my new bathroom is a soaking tub to replace the existing standard shower over tub. I love a good, relaxing soak.

jo2612 Really need to do this to take care of disabled daughter. Can hardly get her in the shower now because of door in the way of shower door. 1930's home - 2nd floor bathroom is tight - floor is concrete. Has both stand alone shower (small) and a square tub and two doorways. Want to get rid of stand alone and make tub into big shower. Toilet is in the middle of the room - ugh! Have attached photos for any advice!

jshilander Is the stand-alone shower on the opposite wall from the bathtub? Besides the plumbing for your sink, what is behind the wall your sink is on?

Britastina Ringtons,
Love the "dust bowl" comment. A friend of mine who has an absolutely lovely home used the dust bowl in her master bath as a clothes hamper. I guess it took care of the dust. Me, I vacuum mine. Can't wait to get rid of it.

jo2612 Thanks jshilander. The shower is behind the toilet - in photo has white towel hanging on the glass door. The toilet is right across from the tub. Behind the sink is a closet in the next door bedroom. Also, to the left of the toilet - if facing the tub, is a narrow (about 18") linen closet from ceiling to floor. Separate plumbing for the sink, the tub, and the shower. The right side of the sink runs against an outside wall (where the window is), and there is a second doorway that goes into the Master that interferes with the shower door (the other doorway goes into a hallway) - very 'cut up' space. (See photos) Thought about moving sink where shower is now but may be too small a space, and turning tub into large shower with a bench. The toilet is the problem, I think. Husband is very handy - but breaking out concrete floor will be a job. Any ideas welcome! :) Thanks!

frenchdecor @sigrid, thank you, squeegee would work on glass doors, but not on grout. Water is not an issue, my guess, we don't have problem in the bathroom upstairs, but I'll try in shower head. My husband is a builder and though he has a bodybuilder stature he is tired like a working mule at the end of the day, no way he'll do cleaning. Eventually I plan to clean grout and re-apply with some sealer.

cherielou John Wipple, Our glass door does go both ways, I just forgot. We are so used to opening it toward the shower stall, that I totally forgot it goes both ways. Thank you, though.

sea2build What about thinking of an aging in place for your home when you are doing such a renovation.

Britastina Aging in place is behind every single thing I do to my home. Happily, there are a huge variety of things that can be done that don't scream "hospital/rest home"! I am working carefully and slowly so that not a single person entering the house thinks, "there's an elderly or physically challenged person living here". I know I'm lucky. It was not due to foresight that we can easily incorporate "aging in place" in my renovations. It was sheer dumb luck. We bought a new 3000 sq. ft. single story house about 14 years ago. We don't to run into outdated electrical and plumbing. The doors throughout the house are all wide enough for wheelchairs. We don't even have to move plumbing to renovate the kitchen or master bath. I don't know what I would do if I had to try to renovate one of the lovely old homes that don't lend themselves to aging in place. When we bought the place, my husband and I were in the middle of a battle. I wanted to buy a beautiful two story 200 year old house. He wanted a brand new house. He won. I thank him every day!

taureg When I renovated my small urban bathroom recently, I had the walls reinforced wherever I might want to put a grab bar when I am older. It cost nothing, nothing shows - but I know it is there if I need it, both in the shower and by the toilet.

Instead of a shower bench, I bought a cute modern plastic outdoor stool which takes up less room and is movable. I can put in a sturdy seat if I need it years from now. After all, how many people do more than use the bench to prop their foot when shaving their legs? Saves money on the renovation too.

I put in a hand shower, mounted low - if I break a leg or something and am in a cast, I can wash the rest of my body easily. And really handy for cleaning the shower.

If you live in a one bedroom apartment, taking out a tub hurts resale less than in a house likely to contain young children.

I raised the ceiling from 8 to 9 feet and put in a ceiling heater. It gets chilly in there sometimes.

BTW, everyone I know hates glass showers more than they do curtains. They are a horror to keep shiny - especially after the coating goes.

loripresti Perfect timing! We finally decided to convert 2 bedrooms into a master suite building a master bath without a tub. For a long time we debated about not having a tub and you just solidified that we made the right decision!

Mackin Drafting & Design @jo2612 Have you thought about pushing the toilet back into the space where the stand alone shower is? You could put up a short half wall next to the existing door for privacy to the toilet. This would at least give you some much needed floor space.

I would also consider using a shower without a door as you see pictured in the first and forth picture in the article.

Moving the toilet back might give you enough pace to at least change the wall hung sink for a decent sized vanity it the same area.

It would involve some breaking up of the concrete to to this but it might be worth it.

Britastina This is for people with generous renovation money or those who are renovating and re-doing their sheet rock anyway. Several years ago I ran across a company in Canada who redesigned all the hardware for bathrooms to be sleek grab bars (towel bars, toilet paper holders, etc.). The name is Healthcraft Invisia. What a concept! The stuff is expensive. But, if you look around, several American companies are jumping on the bandwagon (and not a moment too soon). By the way, if you are enclosing a previously non-enclosed toilet, make sure there is room to back a wheelchair up to it. By taking time, and doing a little homework, we can all have a safe and lovely bathroom and not have to move out of our forever homes. We deserve it.

patricia beharry I hate, HATE, when realtors tell people to keep something that they don't want in their homes for resale. Reading the comments I am surprised to see how many do not want a tub in their bathrooms. My builder had me put one in, now I have to go through the expense and inconvenience of taking that monstrosity with two slippery steps to get into, out of my house. The steps are built of solid concrete, as is my whole house, due to hurricanes. So it will be very difficult to remove.If you don't want to buy my house, move on.

Fine Art & Portraits by Laurel Excellent tips and beautiful examples. My smaller bathroom has a glass-enclosed 29" x 29" shower. I NEVER use it, too claustrophobic; it holds the kitty litter box. The other bath has a tub-shower with a swinging glass door on only one half. Unable to keep water inside, I gave up and added a shower curtain. This is a rental, so I can't make structural changes.

jshilander Yes, I see what you mean, jo2112, about the room being very cut-up. It's a tricky space, no doubt. The plan you suggest about moving the sink makes the most sense. When I saw that space near the tub you describe as a closet, my first thought was to tab into that space to create a shower. I hope you'll keep us posted on your plan.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. @ Laurel - If your washroom is dated you might try approaching your landlord to make things better. The thought of loosing a long lasting tenant is enough to spark a fire under a normally no active landlord.

We did a full bathroom renovation about five years ago for a lady in a rental. She had lived there for seven years and was going to move out because she hated the tile and vanity.

The landlord told her to buy new tile and a new vanity and send him the bill to install them.

Basically the landlord covered 80% of the work and my client was thrilled with this arrangement!

Here in Vancouver there is a shortage of barrier free rentals. A wise landlord would be planning these showers and getting more rent for the rental in the future!

JW

jtrbug Glad to see someone willing to take the first punch for shower curtains vs glass. I had to accept the person I really am: I will not be the one to squeege the glass after every use. I CHOSE a shower curtain (waterproof fabric). I buy the extra long liners and had the curtain rod installed near the ceiling. I can change the mood of the room by changing the outer fabri curtain. Works for me.

frenchdecor @Patricia, as you described your bathroom I liked the idea to cover steps with beautiful solid wood or maybe pebble tile (in sheets) to give it sauna like look, some bamboo or any other natural material on the walls and other items, I imagine it one of a kind rather than cliche from magazine. Again, it depends on your style, of course.
Realtors tell you for your own good, they know what buyers looking for, it's up to you to make a decision. If you plan to live in for the next 15 years do whatever you want, it will need renovation anyway at that point, however, in five years re-sale you'll have trouble selling not realtor. I am frustrated when I am looking some fixer-upper houses that are done on their own taste and rise the price as they did me a favor, when in fact I don't care about two showers in one bathroom (fake luxury) or glass shower. I need privacy and some times I jump in just to grab something in the morning wile my son in bath-shower, or opposite, and I have curtains for the next 5-10 years maybe. Convenience is far more important than ridiculous "openness" not mentioning that posted bathrooms are the size of my master bedroom or bigger. I open curtains and it's the same openness as "clear" (ha-ha) glass. My realtor "melted" when she saw glass wall between master bedroom and bathroom. She is single, I can understand, but I thought "people lost their mind. What on Earth they were thinking I should see or hear what's going on in the bathroom!"

Studio NOO Design Great article, we need to think about using less water, so the shower instead of the bath is the answer !

joanbllt to jo2612 - i tried working out your bathroom - on my design program. wish I could send the print to you. Is it possible to turn the toilet 90 degrees to face away from the door to the hall. Then take out the small shower - convert the tub area into the larger shower. A half wall might then be next to the toilet to screen it from the hall door. However that might interfere with handicap access.

joanbllt Tried something different with Jing. See how the toilet footprints overlap - Turning the toilet might be possible or would require only minimal move of the drain. Shower could have bench, sink should fit in old shower location. The wall between the old shower and toilet could be removed to open area up.
Transfer of disabled daughter much easier for both toilet and shower.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Joan you raise an excellent subject matter when you talk about transffering a disable daughter. Knowing who the care giver is, what help a care giver can get when doing a transfer is key.

We are trying to design a bathroom space right now and it's all "Ass Backwards". Not because the bathroom is poorly designed but because the user has no use of his Left arm.

Try using your bathroom with your left arm in a sling. Is it doable? Self transfer from the chair to a bench with just your right arm? Can you do it?

I learned a great trick a couple years back for building for those with vision impairment. The trick was to use some vaseoline and smear it over your safety glasses. A smear. Now while wearing these try and navigate a space. This will give you a glimpse into out clients world and hopefully make all these new projects safer and more enjoyable. JW

jtrbug I'd like to add that while doing my bath over, I looked for an interesting vanity and could not find what I wanted. At the same time, I knew we would be gutting our kitchen and I would not be reusing my John Boos maple and stainless work bench. YUP! I did it! Everyone told me I was nuts using a 36" work surface in my bathroom (Im 5'4"). I had a Toto square sink placed on top and I'm using a bar faucet (1 lever). NO BENDING OVER!!!!! Why do we continually build too low because "that's what we always do". Nuts!

katdurkin This is a great article. I have a 5X7 bathroom. I gutted the bathroom and hired a contractor to put in a shower. I live in a highrise condo with a cement floor. After construction got underway, there was an issue with rerouting the drain from the tub to the shower along with placement of the toilet and the codes. I still don't understand all the engineering issues but I ended up with a shower 3 inches narrower than I planned. It's about 27". Marble affected the available width also. If I had known that the shower was going to be so tiny, I would have not spent $12K on a complete renovation, and would have just lived with the tub, and gone from there.

Don't leave your contractor alone. I went on vacation, and came back to a narrow shower. Never mentioned by the contractor. And a hole in the wall by the electrician who somehow thought I would want an electrical outlet right where a vanity mirror would be placed above the vanity. And the contractor said, "well he's a man". Really.

There is a great Kohler toilet, expensive, but with a 13" tank that functions great AND doesn't take up alot of space. Hard to find small white vanities and I ended up using my kitchen cabinet guy to do the vanity.

bdarnell4 Thanks for a great article and timely for me. One question, if anyone can answer: for a curbless shower, does the floor have to slope (to drain)? Is this sloped floor a problem for people with mobility/balance issues? Thanks

patricia beharry @bdarnell4----- In our curbless shower the floor was sloped ever so slightly toward the drain. but it is quite a large shower 6x4 ft. And you can also put a shower head that faces down from the ceiling. The water never ever reaches the entrance to the shower due to the length of the shower, and the slight slope which is not even noticeable. It think it is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch over a 6ft area. But there are a lot of info on the subject on line.

BY DESIGN Builders Very informative and interesting article, John! Thank you for sharing it.
A tub conversion to shower is the #1 request we hear from new buyers of Maui homes. Most frequently this is in two bath condos and they want to remove one tub for a larger walk-in shower.
Planning and design is critical in a successful conversion. Not only does the finished product need to feel and look right, the infrastructure must be solid for longevity.
We waterproof our showers to the ceiling. While not required, this small extra step ensures the shower is water tight and will not leak to downstairs neighbors.
We also are known for our "windows in the shower." This must be done properly and the result is a beautiful, functional ventilation in the shower.
We are designers and we construct which means we are held accountable from beginning to end.
Here's another "window in the shower"...

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. The slope needs to be at least 1/4" per foot. In a six foot by four foot shower you would need minimum 1" of slope assuming you sloped it over the short run or the 4' run. Over 6' a shower must slope 1.5" (1/4" per foot or 2% grade).

You can check your 2% slope (1/4" per foot) with a two foot level and piece of 1/2" drywall. Place the drywall on the low side of the shower and then rest the edge of the level on the drywall and on the shower floor. If a proper slope is in place the level will read "Level".

Slopes as great as 1/2" per foot are allowed but no more. If you slide your level down so the middle of the level is on the edge of the drywall this will be a 4% grade (Max grade 1/2" per foot). If the shower is stepper than this the floor does not comply with recommended slopes.

I like a hair past 2%. This grade works and drains the best I have found. JW

jo2612 joanbllt - Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for doing this. I showed the idea to my husband. It may work to turn the toilet - obviously the plumbing for that is a big issue we would rather not have to deal with so turning it has definitely come up in conversation - will keep you updated. Anyone have words of advice regarding tear down?

patricia beharry @John Whipple------ Of course you must be correct. I did my measurements by eyeing it and using a ruler; And since my worst subject was math, what do I know? All I know is that the slope is ever so gentle, it should not be a falling hazard for the disabled, since that was my intent to build a retirement home for my husband and I in our old age; And since his father is 92, and my mother is 91 and still raising hell, we are preparing for the long haul. We have steps leading up to the house, so our next goal is a ramp on the side of the house.

Jo Allan Wow, this is a popular topic! We also have a small (but all ours as I say) master bath. It's about 5'x7' as well. We know we want to gut it at some point just based on the cheap looking tub surround (no offence to those who have them and like theirs) and to make it more functional. Having just endured two major back surgeries in recently I can tell I would have LOVED to have had a curbless walk-in shower! I was on a walker for two months and then crutches! It really made my hubby and I think of the future. We do have three full baths in our house so we didn't think losing one tub would effect resale too badly.

Here's my quandary, when I'm able to get back to taking baths and reno the master to be walk in shower, will I miss just coming out of the bath right into the bedroom vs from the guest bath. Our house is only 1500 sq ft and the living room is next to the master. But every morning I look at the tub/shower and really can envision a walk in shower for daily use and opening the space up. And yes, the door vs curtain debate has come into play as well. Good article and topic!

katdurkin My contractor said it was a two week job, and ended up a 3 month job. Getting the plumber back a couple of times, the electrician, and the tile guys all were issues with the small job. In fact, my contractor was told by her accountant to stop doing small jobs. So I was the last small job.
As to the curbless shower I wanted so dearly, the contractor told me she really needed 33" width to make it work wtihout water getting out the back corner. So that wasn't happening, and when I suggesed a European bathroom (all able to be wet), she said the sloping would be so bad to obtain proper draining that she could not do it. And with the condo highrise cement floor, she could not install a second drain. Alas, in retrospect, I would have stuck with a tub in the master, and saved money and grief.

Here in Florida, where there are many elderly people, there is a tub advertised that has a door, so as to be a walkin, and eliminates having to get over the side of the tub. One of my friends installed this for her mother and said it worked fine.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. When your told something "Can't be done." double check this information. Often "Can't be done" is code for "I don't want to do it for you" or "I don't know how".

When interviewing contractors and tile setters ask for pictures of their prior barrier free work. A curbless shower should be designed by someone with a good five years experience in this type of work.

Last year we built two barrier free showers in Vancouver Condo's. It can be done.

Converting a tub into a walk in shower with a door is a possibility but remember many times this still leaves you with a 6" step - some of my clients find that to much.

JW

katdurkin Thanks for your comments. I will remember them when I start renovating bathroom #2.

Jo Allan @John W. re Can't be done

Totally agree! We are business owners, albeit not trade or contractor, but even in our line of work our clients have told us previous consultants/providers said, "it can't be done". They ate surprised and annoyed to find out that is wrong and misleading. Unfortunately, we've than had to charge a bit more to fix what was previously done. Educate yourself before investing in any professional service...the good ones like John will not be offended.

World Contracting LLC I find, overwhelmingly, that people that are quick to say "can't be done" are never the people best to surround myself with. When presented with a problem, we will always find a solution! more often than not, anything can be done. The few times it is not done is because the solution is way outside the budget.

fpcummings I've found this artcle/discussion to be very useful. Thank you all. I don't make decisions easily and I've let the 'resale value with no tub' paralyze me for a couple of years. I have finally broken through and now can't have the tub out fast enough! My partner is completely disabled/wheelchair bound with no use of his hands. Giving him a shower currently is not only inconvenient, it's dangerous. My question is--how do I find a contractor to do the job? Do I need a designer? I live in NJ.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. I have tried to keep tabs on those I think might have experience in this sort of renovation but sadly there is no formal training.

I have a somewhat list here http://no-curb.blogspot.ca/2011/04/certified-channel-drain-installers-city.html

You can try looking up a Five Star NTCA Contractor - this might be a good starting point.

In Canada look for a TTMAC member.

Ask for references. Ask to see examples. Ask about flood testing! Make sure the new crew plan this vital step.

Look into the TCNA and TTMAC guidelines and make sure you understand what is involved in the renovation before jumping all in.

JW

jlbush3 Bathtub

fpcummings Thanks for your recommendations. BTW, lately you've been at the top of my 'preferred reading list'. If I ever get this project off the ground, I'll post some pictures.

calikym A family with young children needs a standard tub. The updated shower looks fantastic but I can't imagine not having a tub for my little ones to play in and take small bubble baths in. Just one mother's opinion...

labbcstx Britastina--are you located in the BCS TX area? We are and would love to get some 1 on 1 renno chatting. Contact me if you can--

Britastina labbcstx,
Hi! Yes, I am in CS TX. Would love to chat. How do we get in contact with each other?

labbcstx 776-5405

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Vancouver Condo - Master Bath 50 Square Feet

The end result of months of planning and months of construction...

A & D Glass Inc. Great ideabook and discussion! I'm going to embed it on my website for customer reference.

Tile Redi Bathtub replacement is a definite trend...taking a shower in a bathtub is awkward! Tile Redi has a complete line of Bathtub Replacement shower pans specifically designed to fit the footprint of the bathtub you remove. Check it out at https://www.tileredi.com/shower-pans/bathtub-replacement.html

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. I would avoid a tile ready pan like the plaque. Just two months ago we went and built a custom shower. The owners had already purchased a tile ready pan (Tile Redi) and hated it. They asked me to install it and I wouldn't. I think there crap.

I saw their product in Las Vegas a few years ago (Health Care Design Conference 2010) and thought it was junk then and think it is junk now.

On this note I also don't like the Kerdi pan. The Noble Pan. The Wedi Pan. Or the Laticrete pan.

If forced to use one in a shower build I would pick one of the four listed above over the Tile Redi pan every time. The tile Redi pan requires a lot of prep and requires special setting materials. These types of systems are designed for hotel use where an installer is building on the cheap and in massive units. Most pro installers need to bang out 10-14 showers a day on a commercial or hospitality project.

If you think a pan will make your life easier - think again. JW

BY DESIGN Builders Agreed about not being a fan of the ready-made pans, or any shower product for that matter. We attend KBIS, IBS, Dwell on Design and other industry trade shows. Many times we have taken a look and listened to the sales pitch. And each time we have walked away saying, "No, I don't trust it." or "No, this is not the best method."
We are professionals and we will always go with what we know. We have proven methods and leak-proof showers. Our clients appreciate this.
Interesting point about these "ready-made" products requiring more installation materials and time. Time is money so buying a ready-made anything that takes more time to install (or adjust to the situation) is bad for business.
Perhaps these types of products are better suited for DIYers?
We definitely do not see the top professionals using them.

We just passed another shower pan flood test...go with what you know...

ae2ga I'm not sure from whence comes this idea of no bath tubs, but I hope this trend goes away soon. If there are other bathtubs in a house of at least two bathrooms, then maybe taking out a tub is okay. But I cannot think this is a good idea for resale as no bathtub would have to limit the pool of potential buyers. There are people who need bathtubs - imagine bathing the toddler in the shower. Besides not being as easy as taking out the tub and putting in the shower - something pointed out above - I don't like this idea.

Christina Emery I'm going to take my tub out and just put a shower in, this gives me lots work with. thank you

Bill Fry Construction - Wm. H. Fry Const. Co. We do many bathtub to shower conversions during the course of a remodel. For waterproofing, nearly all our projects are hot mopped. Good points on making sure that plumbing fixtures work with local building departments - this is one of the reasons why we like our clients to shop local!
Los Altos Hills Bathroom Remodel
Blue and White Bathroom with Glass Block
Vi Condo Remodel
:) Rhoda

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Hi Rhonda. Did you know that the Linear Drains from ACO have a cast iron rough in for California Hot Mop's?

I'm helping a client in California right now who interviewed a few builders and not one saif that they would flood test the project. In the end he decided to build the shower himself.

He just past a 72 hour inspection (flood test!).

I've seen more flood tests from my clients abroad than I have seen online combined (excluding mine). These safety checks are what keeps things tight and leak free.

Insist that your tile crew, hot mop crew or plumber checks their work.

If your told they are not needed - find a new person to do the job.

JW

Bill Fry Construction - Wm. H. Fry Const. Co. Hi John -
We've done hot mops for linear drains and always have to do the flood test for building inspections for our San Francisco Bay Area projects. I don't know the brands Bill has used and will ask him during the week (he's taking the weekend off). Frankly, while linear drains are good to look at, I would prefer to take a shower with a slope to a center drain rather than a slope to one side for a linear drain. Here are a couple of linear drains we've done (one doesn't have the fancy grill on it yet):
Vi Condo Remodel
When this project is furnished, I'll get professional photos!
:) Rhoda

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Great looking showers Rhoda. I believe both of those linear shower drains are ACO's. I've found that a simple point drain (regular square or round drain) often is the best approach to these shower builds.

When choosing a linear drain it is important to remember they need to be easy to clean. The Electropolished Finish on the ACO and the ease of grill removal make it Best in Class for ease of cleaning.

Good to hear all your shower projects are flood tested. This is the single most important check that the shower's waterproofing is in tack and that water getting to this layer can drain away without pooling. Would love to see a few action shots if you have them on file.

This shower is waterproofed with combination of products ranging from Hydro Ban, Noble Seal TS, Kerdi and Ardex 8+9. It's been flooded out now for 14 days at least. Here in Vancouver often these showers waterproofed with liners are left for weeks. I've seen one evaporate over the six weeks we where on site.

I like to tell people to ask their shower renovator "Who will flood test the new shower's waterproofing system?". Is it required? A pro will say it is and understand the process of calling for and flood testing a shower. This question should be asked before any work begins. Use it as a pre screening question to find the right crew to build your new dream shower.

Even if a permit is not require the flood test needs to be done to ensure the work is properly completed. JW

Bill Fry Construction - Wm. H. Fry Const. Co. Flood testing is required for us. The hot-mopped area is filled with water and the inspector also checks with a ruler that there is a proper slope. I've only met inspectors a couple of times (since I don't have the expertise), most of the time Bill meets the building inspector. Here's a during construction photo:

World Contracting LLC IPC requires flood testing here in the United States. This is not something a tiler would be aware of, ad this falls under plumbing and is a plumbing inspection.

fpcummings I agree with Rhoda, linear drains are good to look at! I'm just your average, inexperienced homeowner looking to remodel her bathroom. I'm concerned about pitch for a linear drain vs. a regular center drain regarding using a shower bench or chair for wheelchair-bound person. I may not have a choice, because I'm having trouble getting a contractor because of all the work created by superstorm Sandy! But I'd be interested in any advice. A shower is hard enough without the chair/bench being wobbly! Thanks!

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Every tiler should be aware of flood testing requirements. If they are not they have no business waterproofing showers in my opinion. When all showers require waterproofing the fact that a tile setter does not know this shows he is not used to working on permitted projects.

Do you really want a friend of your sister's boyfriend tiling and waterproofing your shower? Or would you rather work with a pro who understands that because he/she is building your shower it is also there responsibility to flood test it. As a home owner you should specify this procedure and insist on seeing it set up and inspect. Once flooded and check then make sure it drains. I can promise you if you tell your crew this is a must there will be a lot more care taken on your job.

A flood test used to be a plumber only thing (back when the only option was a rubber liner, copper pan or hot mop) but with membranes from Noble, Kerdi, Wedi, Laticrete, Mapei, Ardex and on an on it is the tile setter who needs to set up this flood test and call it in.

If you want your plumber to do the flood test let him install the waterproofing membrane. If your tile guy wants to use Hydro Ban or Kerdi make sure he does the inspection.

lynringel Disappointed that the
Kerdi Fix product only has a 1 year warranty..really? 1 year is not much good

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. I agree that one year is not the best. Many things have a one year warranty in this industry. Epoxy grouts. Most shower liners. To name a couple.

That said "Kerdi Fix" is one of my most important tools in shower construction. I pay about $26.00 a tube and use it for so many applications.

This is not a glorified Dap Chaulking in the $3.00 a tube price point. We once had to remove some Kerdi affected to an ACO drain with only Kerdi fix. Roughly 80" of 1/2" coverage. It took over an hour to get it off.

Stuck like a ___________! JW

mrsjr1 Please explain why you hate the ready made pan systems?

charkem We would like to remove our old tub and install a walk in shower as many others do but are also concerned about resale value if we remove the only tub in our home. Since walk in tubs already exist why can't a tub manufacturer build a walk in tub that is also a walk in shower. When the walk in door is closed, the unit is a sealed tub or the door is opened to access the unit which has a flat floor and looks like a shower floor.

Britastina ae2ga,
I don't think the removal of a tub is necessarily a trend. Some people, like me, are dealing with an over-sized jetted tub that measures 6' x 6 1/2' that is very difficult to clean and looks hopelessly outdated. Not to mention the fact that this tub can be difficult to get into and out of. We are thinking more about being able to stay in our house if either of us becomes disabled. We have 2 additional full baths that are used only on the random weekend or the holidays. Every house that has been sold on our street has been sold to older couples. We have talked with realtors and the consensus is that our changes will enhance the resale of our house (not that we plan to sell). Again, the object is not to be trendy but to have a "spa-like" bathroom we can use for years to come. Of course in addition to the large curb-less shower, there will be a fireplace and TV. If you are in a wheelchair, the bathroom should be a comfortable and relaxing place. After spending the last couple of months with a wheelchair bound relative, we are looking at even the simplest tasks in a whole new light.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Someone I respect a lot told me once that I need to spend a day in a wheelchair and before I go high five'n myself for such a great bathroom renovation to try and use it wheelchair bond. I have learned a lot over the last few years working with people with diasabilities and it's sobering how easy we have it as able bodied people.

Thank you for your comment Britastina. Accessibility is an issue we will all face sooner than later. For me and my wife the last two years has been a struggle caring for her father's needs while trying to get him into a care home where he is safe. My wife is a Saint and has done practically everything herself. Me as a builder - I look at accessibility in a whole new light. It's hard not to when dealing with it on a weekly basis.

Just last week one of my clients fell in a bathroom I built and broke her hip. The bathroom was not the barrier free shower I made for them but rather the main bathroom. She slipped getting off the toliet with her walker. The tile was Italian Marble (8"x8" Honed with a tumbled edge). Had she used the bathroom with the 4"x4" floor tile she may not have fallen. I can only hope she recovers properly.

I also learned that vision is key - I believe I mentioned this already but I was taught that you should smear a little vasoline over your glasses or work safety glasses to re-create what it is like for someone with a vision impairment has to go through in a day.

One of my Peers in Ontario (http://www.houzz.com/pro/reliableliving/ronny-wiskin) is a great wealth of information to me. He told me that people should be Pro-Active rather than Re-Active. When you remove a tub that just wastes space and is too hard to enter and exit safely with a barrier free shower you are being Pro-Active. When your husband falls and breaks his hip and you cut in a cheesy door into the tub or instal a transfer bench you are being RE-active. The difference is in the planning, the required timeline and the material choices available to you.

I do not think a barrier free shower or accessible bathroom needs to look like something from a hospital. Then can be designed with style and made to look sleek and modern. But this requires forethought and time.

JW

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Mrs JR! you asked me "Please explain why you hate the ready made pan systems?"

Yesterday I checked in on my Linked In profile and went by the NKBA Group. I added a link to this ideabook and this fellow made a "Helpful Post" about a tub to shower conversion from KBRS.

I looked up the product and then looked up the tub to shower installation process. You can view it here;

http://kbrsinc.com/site/showerslope_installation_gallery.html

Take a moment a look at this link. What do you see?

I see a complete pile of crap. A drain installed wrong. Waterproofing systems used wrong (if the Shower Seal product is in fact made by Mapei). Blocked weep holes.

The fellow that suggested this product no doubt works for them or sells them - I guess I'm guilt of that too promoting the ACO drains I sell - but the big difference is in the install. The one shown online by KBRS would fail inspection here in Vancouver. How they can sell and offer up installation advice boggles my mind.

Mrs. JR1 this is my biggest issue with these systems. Most if all are junk and they are designed to make a hard job easy. By making it easy you loose a little in function or quality.

A shower can destroy your home. Make you sick. Make your kids sick. It could even bankrupt you in worst case scenarios. They need to be built right. Checked. tested.

People should start demanding that these inspections get done. It's like contractors forget who the boss is. For me the boss is the client. They pay the bills. I charge to build waterproof showers and think my customers deserve to be shown they are. So does every inspector in America and Canada.

If your guy says its not require. Tell them to test it anyway. Then be careful how you go about flood testing. I will put up a very detailed Ideabook on this process teaching everyone how I flood test and measure the evaporation rates. Nothing fancy is needed. Most likely everything you need found in the couch (loose change) and in the kitchen (small baking dish). JW

labbcstx Mr. Whipple you are absolutely correct re: being pro-active. For years I bathed disabled ladies and absolutely know the hardshi-ps entailed in both the care of the individual and the housekeeping part of a shower. My husband on the other hand has never been involved in bathing others and is disagreeing with me re: making a complete barrier free/doorless shower. He's never had the cleaning upkeep of a shower with a door (I worked in B&B's for numerous years and know how tough it is to keep glass in showers looking pretty and sanitary). While he is still fit and able to do some the work (we've done numerous renno's ourselves) we've never tried this type renno. He keeps saying if we were building new this would be easy, but rennovating an existing bath is overwhelming him. Your comments and understanding of caring for a disabled person is refreshing and most informative. Sure wish you lived near us so we could have you physically aid us in this work. Trying to locate a contractor that is knowledgeable of this type work in our area is proving difficult. What questions should we ask and get "proof" of when interviewing contractors? We can't afford both physically and monetarily to mess this up. We plan to stay in our home as long as is feasibly possible but our time is starting to run short as we are aging now. Again thank you so much for all your insight into the problems.

Britastina Wow! I hope more equipment designers, designers and builders are paying attention (accent on "more") to this discussion. Along with Mr. Whipple and labbcstx, we need to pay more attention to living with physical disabilities for ourselves and our families. It is never too early. Happily, it seems that everyone is paying more attention to the hurdles and doing something about it. This is a situation that is far more important than granite counter-tops and stainless steel appliances. I haven't looked at them lately but several years ago I ran into a company in Canada who had a line called "Invisia". These products were primarily for the bathroom and essentially converted EVERY fixture in the bath into "grab" bars. The difference was, they were stylish (though a bit modern for most taste). Yes, they were expensive but not more expensive than selling your house. Fortunately, more builders are including "barrier-free" designs into all houses and I have run across more and more fixtures that moonlight as "grab bars". The beauty of all this attention is that we can design kitchens and baths that do not scream "eeeeau, an old person lived here!" It may not be possible for a house to be retrofitted but it may be more and more possible to find a home that less "builder" and more "home lover".

BY DESIGN Builders The Invisia Collection is definitely here to stay. They understand.
This is one of their fold down shower seats we installed a year and a half ago...very nice:

Britastina Hey Invisia! Y'all are great and I will include you in my " incredibly stylish and usable design". It is about time someone recognized that people want something other than "hospital" or "rest home" design in their homes. It may be a year or two but you remain at the top of my spec-sheet. Say hello to everyone in Canada for me!

mrsjr1 Thanks for answering my question about pan system!. Well, what is the best way to convert a tub into a shower? I know this sounds lame but the contractor I was going to hire suggested using a pan system now I want to sound knowledgeable and tell him how I want it done and I really don't know the way it should be done. I just want my shower to turn out right and the system he was describing sounded fine before until you stated how bad it can turn out. Do you have a video site on how to do it right? Please help me understand the way it should be done so I done very problems.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. There is a lot to understand Mrs JR1. Far to much to answer in this comment section alone. I have a new Ideabook that I'm working on that talks about tile and grout selection.

Your contractor might want to use a fiberglass pan instead of building a custom tile pan. This is one way to simplfly the process.

When I say I do not like ready made tile pans I'm referring to the tile ready made pans. Pans designed to be tiled after completion. A simple tub to shower fiberglass pan can be used and waterproofed quite easily.

If this is the type of shower pan your contractor recommends ask them;

"How do you waterproof the wall backer board to the shower pan.?" - a smart contractor will take care with this critical board to shower pan transition. Of late I have been using some Kerdi Band and Kerdi Fix to seal the lip of the shower tray to the backer board. Then we waterproof the walls up to about 6' high making the entire shower waterproof.

"Do you extend the waterproofing up the walls? - if so how far?" - typically 6' off the ground is ideal in most cases. We like to make sure any wall that will get wet is waterproofed this high. In a typical shower this is about 66 square feet of wall waterproofing. A $70.00 container of Hydro Ban, a $65.00 box of Ardex 8+9, a small roll of Kerdi or Noble membrane could all address this. Most renovators have their favourite. The ones that don't know what these products are are the ones to avoid.

"How does the shower pan get installed to the floor and if it gets any mortar or thinset when being installed?" - this is often skipped and the fiberglass pans can feel soft and spongey. It is easier to just plunk it done and be done with it but adding in the mortar layer or thinset makes for a better install.

"Will you flood test the new shower pan? - what do you use to do this?" - The drain connection to the shower pan and the pan's connection to the drain pipe needs to be checked. A simple twist n set test plug or inflatable test plug will do the job. Most contractors do not know how this is done so they may differ to their plumber. Either way asking the questions lets them know you want it preformed. The ones that tell you it's not needed are the ones that might not be the best fit for your next renovation.

I like to use a topically waterproofing over my shower backer board walls. This is not a required step or even a code require step - it is however a good common sense step. If your renovator is "Old School" he may describe using building paper or poly behind his backer board. He may describe taping the seams and then tiling. These are recommended steps and not wrong. If they answer like this ask them

"Would you mind waterproofing my shower topically? What product or products do you like?" - here again they may differ to their tile setter for feedback. If this is the case ask them

"Who is your tile setter? What's your plumber's name?" - Pro's work with the same crew on almost every job. I have about 2-3 tile setters I use on occasion. 2-3 plumbers I trust. I can give you their names on the drop of a hat. If your looking at a portfolio ask what tile setter installed this shower? Things like that

Hope that helps somewhat Mrs. JR1.

mrsjr1 Thank you so much for taking the time to give me some real details that will surely help me ask intelligent questions. It seems we have to educate ourselves thoroughly so as to avoid issues and unprofessional people. You are doing a great service! :)

pennypie0780 I'm nearing 60, and will soon be buying my last home. I intend to spend the rest of my life there, and I'm NOT going to worry about resale value. I plan on making the home convenient for me alone, and whatever design decisions I make will be to please myself, and not some potential buyer in a potential scenario.

If I were younger, and looking at moving up in the housing market, resale has importance. If a person is planning on living in a home for five years or less, this makes good sense. It all depends on where you are in your life and what you intend to get from your home.

We live in an aging world, and my decision to remove a bathtub to make a safer environment is, undoubtedly, the same thought that many others considering my home may one day have (when it is eventually put up for sale.) However, I don't really care - I'll enjoy my shower and let the bank, or whoever gets my house when I die, worry about it.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. That's the spirit Penny Pie! Real Estate is a funny business. You do know not know what will spark someone to fall in love with your home.

If a shower makes your life easier or will one day - then the tub's got to go.

You might get more money for the place in the end.

If you worry about future resale pricing you may miss out on a newer higher quality of life.

If you slip and fall getting out of or into a tub and end up in a care home (over half the people living in assisted living places are there because of a fall) then what good is that?

Removing tripping hazzards, adding in grab bars, better lighting, wider doors and on and on improve the ease of living as we age. This can keep us in our homes longer.

Falls are to be avoided. Falls are bad. Plan for this in your 40's and 50's. My Nana is 86 and still will not let me install grab bars for her! Nana keeps telling me she will let me install them when she is old! lol

It is possible to design a barrier free and tasteful shower space. Not to practical if you need to do it in a week. The difference is in the planning.

Like Ronny Says. You are either going to renovate to be Pro-Active or because you are being "Re-Active".

Re-Active showers tend to look like the hospital came down to build it.

Pro-Active showers tend to look like this West Vancouver Low Curb Shower

I started a new IdeaBook here with a few questions you might ask your next bathroom renovator or tile contractor. Ideabook: Hiring a bathroom renovator - top questions to ask before hiring one!

iluvzhorses The only comment I have (as I love the idea of no tubs just showers) is when we got ready to list out house the market warranted a tub (for families with smaller children), so we had to do the opposite in 1 bathroom.. tale out the shower only and put in a tub!!!

fpcummings Just printed your new ideabook! And not a moment too soon! I've already gotten two estimates for my bathroom renovation and am awaiting others. We've been re-active for the past 8+ years and it's definitely past time to remove the tub. And I've promised my disabled partner the first shower! We've discontinued giving him a shower after a recent serious fall.

Put grab bars in for Nana despite her objections; they're not only for the old and disabled. They are of no use to my partner because he can't use his arms/hands. But a few years ago, I was seriously ill and found them extremely useful. Thanks for the new ideabook!

Cathy Shepherd If someone does this and puts their house up for sale, I walk through and keep walking. Yes, it will decrease the overall appeal and sale of your home if you do away with a tub in the main or in the master bath. I see this idea posted over and over but it seems like a real risk. Better to find a way to add a shower stall than to rip out a tub. I shudder to think how many houses I will run into with no tub and varigated horizontal glass tile slivers on my next search.

pennypie0780 Cathy - you're looking at it from one perspective. Many older folks don't want or need a tub, and if you've got a small home that maybe only has one bathroom, why not just worry about your own needs? Of course a family with kids needs a tub, so they wouldn't be interested. But folks that are downsizing or a single or older couples may be looking for just that feature - and would rather have a larger shower than a miniscule "shower-ette" that they can use if they have mobility issues one day.

There's room for all - and, I predict the median age of your clientele will increase over the next few years. You may want to keep track of where those 'no tub' homes are!!!

patricia beharry I lived for 25years with a huge garden tub that I had to get into to clean every week. Both my husband and I are shower people. I filled the monster with water every month so I can run the jets. I used the thing maybe six times, my husband, never used it. For 25 yrs I kept something for resale. Never again. This is MY house. Not a real estate brokers.

pennypie0780 FPCummings - my elderly mother-in-law lived with me & I had shower grab bars & toilet arms installed. Now that she's gone, I wouldn't think of removing them!! Safety is safety, regardless of your age or condition!

jtrbug Pennypie, you are my kind of girl! We made the decision to die in place—some call it age in place—and like you will let someone else deal with the fact this house no bathtub. We put in hardwood floors, new windows and doors, new drive, roof, HVAC and electrical. Surely the next owner can put in a frickin' tub if they want one!

Cathy Shepherd Well, I'm wrong here and there's no way around it! My concerns were about single bath/older homes after seeing renovated homes go unsold for over a year Before the slump. This renovation is the author's specialty and no one could be a better advocate. Showering folk contacting the author's firm have already made the decision for a tub/shower conversion; most commenters have already done the conversion and love it. We should all have the home we want and can use! Most people commenting here will never miss having a bubble bath. (We have strong bath genes in my family. 90 year old mom still insists on baths over shower.). Didn't mention all the things I liked about the article; all the examples look lovely and many could be adapted well to aging or paraplegic needs. Actually, why do we wait until we're old or compromised to use things that make things easier? I hope more things like attractive grabbars and ergomonimc handles will be incorporated more often in everyday design. Using these every day may delay injuries, not just make up for them. Oh, the advice to delay tiling until light sources are installed - priceless.

mcd53 Great article since ten years ago two garden tubs were put in every home built. i was lucky enough to have great showers too though they weren't huge monster showers. Only one tub has been used for our grandsons swimming pool, since they take forever to fill up. And unless you have someone else to clean the shower you might want to rethink all that clear glass.in every shower shown

halleycomet @JOHN WHIPPLE--If you go missing tell your friends n family some one legged woman from the States has come and Bath-Napped you!!! LOL!

The discussions on this topic are of extreme interest to me. As several people have said here--you NEVER know when you or a family member will NEED to have handicapped access--can't we find a BETTER name for these things?--in their home. I am very careless and lost a leg. So now--

I have a 1977 fiberglass (maybe?) tub and shower "surround". Fortunatly for short me the tub is kinda on the low side--this was good for bathing kids back when--and we have two small grandkids who live here now and this is good---but---you can't imagine using something like this with a below the knee amputation. I cannot tell you how TERRIFIED I was the first time I had to get in there--bench or no bench! I use a contraption called a Knee Walker to get around when my faux leg is off--and that means out of the bedroom, down the hall--all with funky 70's carpet that is way thicker than I would like!--and then into the long narrow bathroom. Make sure the bath seat is NOT all tippy. - the two way shower is turned to ONLY hand held mode----adjust the temp and warm up that shower seat.

Then I have to make sure I have EVERYTHING I might need--I have a basket on the Knee Walker for towels razor etc but then there is the in the shower stuff! Make sure curtain is IN the tub. Line the Walker up as close to the side of the tub as I can--and the tub BOWS OUT! Fun. Now .for the fun part--I have to firmly hold onto the handle bar of the Knee Walker and swing my GOOD right leg OVER that tub wall and pray that my foot--which has it's OWN issues!-connects with the floor and does NOT slip. Then I have to make a leap of faith and swing the lopped off leg over and onto the bath seat--try this at home kids!--and then hold onto the GRAB BAR--fortunately one of the ONLY things that was in the house when we bought it that HELPS me--and then work my way 180* around to sitting.

We installed another short grab bar just OUTSIDE the tub-and this is handy for getting in and out. When I get OUT I manage to SIT on the tub edge and pull the knee walker straight (backed in) against the tub wall so I can have several points of contact to eliminate the chance of slipping.

Now heres the thing. I HATE the shower/tub combo. Even tho my hubs works for a Big Box Store whose signs are NOT orange---there seems to be few alternatives due to the odd size of the pre-fab surround etc. So--since we DO plan on moving in the next few years--we are NOT going to yank this out. Much as it pains me to say this! And--it's more that the thing is sooooo ugly! The pebbled surface holds every speck of soap and our highly mineralized water---the tub faucet kept getting severely in my way so that had to go--did I mention that Duct Tape makes a good seal for these things? Nothing ELSE will stick to these walls tho!--and we are just not willing (unless some new product shows up on the plumbing aisle!) to rip n tear. Our house has a second bathroom in the full finished basement with a shower in case we need a second one--say we have a traffic jam on the main floor--but I can't get down there!

This is more to show folks HOW this can affect your life. And--seriously--any of us COULD be hit by a bus or bitten by a shark. And you would need accomodations. We are planning on selling this house and letting the new owners have the "joy" of ripping and tearing--and for us--we will be possibly buying a house down South or traveling in an RV for awhile--talk about DESIGN CHALLENGES!!!!---

Can you imagine the challenges for YOU in YOUR house if you had a big problem?

squirrelbait2001 What a hot topic! I too have a small house with only one bathroom and agonized over how removing the tub would affect resale value. But, bottom line was that I was planning to stay in the house for another 8-10 years, and I had only tried to use the tub to take a bath once in the previously 12 years that I had lived in the house, so I felt removing the tub was the right thing to do FOR ME. Also, while some potential buyers with small children, or bath-lovers might be put off by the lack of a tub, others, such as seniors or a young couple without children, would probably love it. I know I do!

kaurm2001 hi, I have a small bathroom, which has a very bad bathtub. My mother in law is very weak and does not like bathtub. Can you sujest the contractors that are very reasonable in price to remodel our bathroom??

jamesgelman Figure out the shower-door swing. Where will you put the door in your new shower so it does not interfere with the toilet or vanity?

jamesgelman Try to keep at least 15 inches room from the center of the toilet to the new shower glass. If your shower ends up being on the smaller side, you can skimp on this measurement a bit.

Tip: Hold up a sheet of scrap drywall to act as a fake glass panel and sit on a 5-gallon bucket to mimic the toilet's location. This can help you decide how close you like the glass, and how big you'd like your shower.

Stand in the place where your shower will be. A shower depth of 32 inches feels small to me, but might work for you. A depth of 34 to 36 inches tends to be ideal, but again, don't crowd the toilet. Make sure you check your local code for minimum distances, too.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Sorry can't suggest any contractors that do budget remoldeling. All my online friends tend to be custom tile installers.

You might look into a nice fiberglass tub to shower conversion pan. This will reduce some costs for you.

I'm more of high end remoldler and not much of a budget renovator - sorry.

JW

debnsync This is a great article about this process, and seems to cover the main points, details, and reflects the discussions we have had together, as a couple, and with our contractor.
I cannot say enough about how important it is to keep this type of check list and add more if you desire anything in particular before any work begins. I have used Houzz as well, and it actually was the beginning of looking at ideas for features we wanted, learning along the way what was possible! Also, we already knew about the possibilities for our shower, after time spent in other countries ,where it was more common to find curb-less showers successfully working. It was not only the solution to our dated, small bathroom where we never used the tub, but it also was possible now for it to become a quite beautiful and functional solution for the existing space. Suddenly we had a picture in our heads' and a lot of work to do before ever touching a thing!
Since we already have a window, which needed to be addressed, and all of the fixtures are dated and also stained from decades of use of our well-water , which is now corrected, we were already looking at ideas for good solutions and designs for all of our baths. Although the list is long, choices fill a notebook, and files grow by the day, eventually it all comes together through research, notes, discussions, observations, reading, on and on . We are almost at the demolition stage, and are in the final stages of selecting the surround tile and have selected the glass panel we love, so it will all work with the existing beautifully-tiled floor outside the tub/shower, (as you say it is important to do those choices yourself as well as discussing with professionals and especially your own contractor!).
From your great ideas including drainage choices, floor tile and grout, tile surround, built-in seat(too small for ours', but we may get a little "foot edge" to go along an area, window replacement and light, to the little nooks built into the wall for shampoos, etc., we seem to be covering it all. And yes, choice of type of shower head, (and don't overlook all safety features including a grab bar), is a huge part of the total picture. Work with good sales people with excellent products that meet your budget as well when looking at vanities, and making all decisions involving lighting , faucet/drain/tile aspects because they will be working for you from experience; if they are good, they will also listen to you , then help you go forward with these things. Measuring!! Can we ever say enough about the importance of this? Please read and keep this article, it is outstanding!
I am sure this is going to be a wonderful adventure, and I wish all others great luck with your new showers! Of course we all want the ideal contractor, first, and one who has done every aspect of this work before, and with good solid background experience, the good sense to walk us through it, laying out our choices to be decided, advice along the way, and then you don't need to be hesitant to show him/her what you have found on your own in Houzz, or in any other places where you have pictures to show how it actually will look in your minds' eye; it may or may not be do-able. This leads to good design, avoids complications later, solid construction, and a flawless, tasteful, useful bathroom to enjoy for many years to come. Communication and knowledge are the essence of this when working with a team! I truly am blessed, and have worked with our same contractor who I adore and respect completely, several times before. That is the beginning of a wonderful outcome, both beautiful and making us ALL happy!
Thanks again for the article.

merrymj Sheesh. I hurried to your blogspot to finally, maybe, find a contractor with experience in using channel drains . Fourth largest city in the US, and I cannot find even a reliable Kerdi installer.

merrymj Sorry. I'm in Houston...a big empty space, unfortunately, in your great list.

World Contracting LLC Merrymj,
If you contact schluter systems, the maker of kerdi, they can direct you to local contractors that have taken their installation course. ..

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Merrymj try finding out who sells Kerdi locally and ask the sales desk who is buying it. Maybe reach out to Noble Company and ask who is purchasing Noble Seal TS in your town. This might lead you to a qualified installer....

merrymj World, I tried contacting Schluter a couple of times, a year or so apart. Sent me a completely different list each time, and when I called most of those on the list they didn't seem to have a clue. May be worth another go. There is a semi-retired tile guru ( johnbridge.com) on the north side of Houston, but he's busy enough he doesn't need to drive an hour to my side in the southeast and didn't know of anyone working with it down here.

JW: that's a great idea; a nearby tile store sells the material., or used to. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks.

o3lissao Glad to see this article and to see this conversation started. I am looking into buying my first home. In the price range of home I can afford (which is average for the area I live in), all the bathrooms are small, boring areas without much depth or personality. It's usually a fiberglass tub at the far wall, and then a toilet and a vanity packed in there too. I want to contact the home owners and shake them and say "people just because its small doesn't mean it has be to be bland!"

Even when bathrooms are advertised as updated, it usually amounts to new paint and a new Home Depot vanity. That hideous fiberglass tub at the far wall with the sad sad shower curtain and years of soap scum remains. In my area, primitives and Americana decor are the hot items. People never fully update their homes it seems (or if they do they love it so much they never sell), they slap a new coat of paint on a bedroom wall and act like "viola, revamped!"

I am glad to see someone keeping it real and realizing so many of the pictures on here are gorgeous but not everyone is super wealthy with giant houses and giant rooms within those houses. Us people with small bathrooms have good taste and like nice spaces too! :)

Marek White A friend changed the look of a 60's bathroom with what appears as a simple change of the vanity top. He replaced the pink sink that had seen better decades and used contact paper to give it a granite look. When you look at it, you really can't tell unless you touch or study it. When money is tight, you get creative. He also did this to the half-bath downstairs and made it look more updated.

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. HI Bobbie. It is really hard to say without looking at the space first hand. Most times there is added prep work needed to pull of this look your after. Would a low curb shower be an option for you?

bones007 We are replacing our tub with the KOHLER 60"L x 42"W Biscuit Shower Floor
Item #: 89230 | Model #: 9996-96. What do you think of this shower base and the installation. We are DIY'ers and will be doing all the work....demo, tiling...

Marek White Way to Go! Renovations you do can be really rewarding and save money. The reno we are doing is beyond our abilities and time. The helpful advice I can offer is read the Reviews of your product on different sites. Yours was well reviewed. One stated the following about your Kohler Shower Pan

"This is a very deluxe shower pan, we bought the large one 60" x 42". Read the instructions carefully as cutting out for the groove in the back is very important - do it wrong and the pan won't fit your floor."

Also read Product Questions about your pan to foresee any special needs/products or materials you might need in addition to what you have. Kohler’s website has some listed for your pan. With our shower, we needed to order a special drain separately that did not come with the item package. We would have not known or thought to ask and order if we had not read about it earlier.

Finally color is a personal choice and not seeing pictures of the bath makes it hard to make a call. I’ve found a color can vary from manufacturers. I like classical designs, my spouse likes different/cutting edge ones. Go with what you like and may you have a fun and fantastic renovation.

fbauerle This is confusing to me. What state has a building code for a homeowner doing their bathroom over? I can well understand a code for a new structure but for a remodel? How many diy projects are done without the state knowing? Why does this state or any state have to know the size of my drain? When I resell is this an item that will be discovered and have to be corrected or the state will not allow me to sell my home? What am i missing in this story?

pennypie0780 There is the International Building Code (IBC). This is a model building code that was developed by the International Code Council (ICC). It is used throughout most of the US and many local building codes are based on it. Building codes for bathrooms actually specify things like the minimum size of allowable shower stall, the space between toilet and wall, spacing for bathroom sinks and lots of other things that are for safety reasons. Whether or not you choose to pull a permit for your work, you might want to check the code out to ensure you're remodel follows the guidelines for safety sake.

pennypie0780 Oh - I'm not a designer or builder - this was about 5 minutes using my Google foo. Don't know something? The info is out there instantly!!!

sjb2814 Thought it might be helpful to hear cost for the conversion from someone who just finished it. Went through a contractor, and total costs, including removing the old tub and tile, tiling to the ceiling, installing top end glass doors and high quality plumbing fixtures, a two-level niche, plus installing more powerful fan and updated lighting was $7,500, all materials included. I only got to whack at the walls a few times with a sledgehammer (to dislodge some hideous fish tiles) -- the rest was all handled by the contractor. Love the result -- makes our small bathroom look huge and spa-like. Home built in 1987 if that helps.

halleycomet A few thoughts if you are planning to change your bath room for your own future or for some one in need of assistance in the bath---as a handicapped person I have my own needs and likes and dislikes but I will keep this to mostly things I have seen and used as good or bad.

First off--do not EVER use one of the across the tub edge seats!!! The edge that hangs over the tub side on the room side will instantly FLOOD the floor. Discovered this in a hotel room. IT seems like a good idea because you can move it out of the way for others but the waterfall factor makes it very dangerous.

When you think about a built in seat--think about who might use this and how. For some one to just sit and relax while their hair conditioner works anywhere is fine. But for some one who might NOT be able to get up and adjust the shower flow or temp from the extreme BACK end of the shower or tub--not so much! If the person using this cannot GET to the controls or the soap and shampoo--kinda useless. And the cold hard back tile of the shower stall can be a turn off in a big way. For this reason I am still thinking of using a mobile shower seat when we move or re-hab to a standing shower

Most showers have shallow niches for soap etc that are placed way too high. For some one seated who might not have the ability or the confidence to move around on wet tile this might be a real difficulty. The shower curtain--or doors--need to be placed so some one seated in the shower or tub can get to them also.

For getting into and out of the shower or bath you need to think--how will this be accomplished! Is the person going to go into the shower in a wheelchair? Transfer from the chair to the shower seat? Can they do this alone or will they need someone to help them--and that person will need room to help.

What plans will you make if some one does fall in the shower? I had a shower seat break in a hotel bathroom--I spend a fair amount of time in hotels!!!---and because the shower pan was a lovely tile raised about 5" off the floor I could NOT get my leg underneath me in the narrow space. As I am missing a leg and part of a foot I have a few "issues" with getting up from the floor and slippery 1950's tile didn't help! We ended up having to call the Squad to give me a hand to the toilet and then I was able to continue on my own. Was pretty scary tho. Will you have a call bell? Someone to sit with the person while showering? Low grab bars for pulling some one up if they just need a hand hold? And some showers and baths have the grab bars in totally UNrealistic placements--the best thing I can think of is to actually SIT as closely mimicking the situation and see exactly WHERE some one might NEED to grab hold. One of my grab bars is just OUTSIDE the shower on a narrow wall--this allows me to grab from inside and out if needed. For most of these you will NOT be able to move them once placed!!!!

A low holder for the moveable shower head is also something most showers don;t have---and SHOULD. Nothing worse than being in the shower and being cold because the water doesn;t hit you--and you can't lather up or rinse properly. This is also an issue when thinking about the placement of the shower seat----some one at the far end of the structure might NOT be able to get the water ON them right. I don't have much useage of one of the bar pipe type showers--this might be the answer to these issue I just haven't had much chance to try one. Some hotels I have been in have them--but then they don't have a shower seat! Or the tub is too tall for me to get over the side--something else to consider if the person is short or less mobile.

A chair or bench--I prefer a bench as you can turn more easily on it--in or near the bath is a godsend for getting dry and getting dressed. The bed is fine but that also means getting something on even if it is a towel if others are in the house--just another thing to think about!

pennypie0780 Thanks so much for you insightful thoughts. These are all just daily occurrences for you, but for those of us trying to anticipate, these 'true life' suggestions are great!!

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Thanks for all the insights everyone. I wanted to comment on the building code questions. There are actually very little building codes when it comes to building a shower. Basics are covered like the size of the floor and wall framing material, size and type of plumbing waste and vent lines, sometimes ventilation is covered but other than a 15 minute flood test pretty much anything goes.

You need to look at building codes as an entry level - the least you can do as a developer or spec builder before selling off your last build.

Demand a better product - have the TCNA or TTMAC specifications (with the optional waterproofing measures added) specified on your next build. Instead of spending hours and hours looking for a couple of tips purchase the specification guide books and have it sent to your home or office.

This simple step will save most bathrooms from being built and tiled poorly.

My guess is that for less than $50.00 this little specification book could be the best investment you make in the design build process.

$45.00 CDN TTMAC http://www.ttmac.com/specifications.html

$30.00 USD TCNA http://www.tcnatile.com/handbook-all/494-2013-tcna-handbook-for-ceramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation-version-2013-1.html