11 Things to Expect With Your Remodel
by Ventana Construction LLC · 6 photos · 138 comments
1. Dust. Even with elaborate ZipWalls, a fine layer of dust can gather in parts of your home far from construction. There are a few ways to control it. If you can, close off the construction area from the rest of your house with a compression-fit temporary wall. Running air filtering systems called air handlers can also pull the dust from the air on the nonconstruction side of the house. Heat the house without your furnace if possible, or completely block the warm-air and cold-air returns in the construction area. If you don’t, you’ll just be pulling dust from that section of the house into the part where you’re living. Consult an HVAC company before blocking ducts to make sure your furnace will still work effectively.
2. Noise. It will be incessant. Whining saws, scratching Sheetrock sanders and thumping nail guns followed by bellowing compressors: in short, little peace or quiet. Find another place to nap and don’t count on working from home unless your home office is far away from the construction zone. If you’re sure it couldn’t possibly be that bad, visit someone else’s home under construction and you’ll see.
by Ventana Construction LLC
2. Noise. It will be incessant. Whining saws, scratching Sheetrock sanders and thumping nail guns followed by bellowing compressors: in short, little peace or quiet. Find another place to nap and don’t count on working from home unless your home office is far away from the construction zone. If you’re sure it couldn’t possibly be that bad, visit someone else’s home under construction and you’ll see.
3. Triumphant highs. For you it may be the demolition of the ugly vinyl floors in your kitchen. For others it may be the installation of the carefully selected backsplash tile. Others still may feel elated only when they see Sheetrock go in or get to relax when their project is completely done.
4. Multiple sighs. It may be that you just want to be done, or that you’re tired of answering so many questions and writing so many checks. Or you may just be tired of having so many people in your house. Hang in there — remodeling fatigue will be short lived when you get to move back into your newly remodeled space.
by Mueller Nicholls Cabinets and Construction 4. Multiple sighs. It may be that you just want to be done, or that you’re tired of answering so many questions and writing so many checks. Or you may just be tired of having so many people in your house. Hang in there — remodeling fatigue will be short lived when you get to move back into your newly remodeled space.
5. The unexpected. If you expect anything, expect this. Asbestos, irregular framing, jerry-rigged wiring, funny plumbing and more unexpected surprises are bound to arise. No, you won’t be laughing, and neither will your contractor. Count on finding something no one could have anticipated in your budget and your time frame, and you will be well prepared when it happens.
by Ventana Construction LLC
6. Change orders. The unexpected’s cousin is the change order, by which any new and changed work is documented, along with added or reduced cost. Change orders can also be used to resolve allowances, which are placeholders in the budget for particular items. But most often change orders occur because of things that clients decide to add or change. When you absolutely positively have to have that Italian tile, you can bet a change order is on the way.
7. Cash concerns. Even if your project is right on budget, the sheer amount of money you are spending may cause a bit of a freakout. If you’re used to writing four-digit checks, you can easily be writing checks with one or two more zeros during a large remodel. If costs are increasing, along with change orders, it could increase your anxiety. Having cash on hand that's a bare minimum of 10 percent above contract for contingencies will help alleviate that stress. Have 20 percent if you want to worry less.
by John K. Anderson Design
7. Cash concerns. Even if your project is right on budget, the sheer amount of money you are spending may cause a bit of a freakout. If you’re used to writing four-digit checks, you can easily be writing checks with one or two more zeros during a large remodel. If costs are increasing, along with change orders, it could increase your anxiety. Having cash on hand that's a bare minimum of 10 percent above contract for contingencies will help alleviate that stress. Have 20 percent if you want to worry less.
8. Delays. Snow falls, people get sick, cars break down and sometimes faucets ordered from the factory take 10 weeks instead of six. You and your contractor will likely be working from a schedule that assumes the world is a perfect place. It’s not, and knowing that will allow you to be resilient when your schedule shifts a bit.
9. Decisions. Where should that outlet be? How high do you want the showerhead? Where do you want the cabinet hardware mounted? Oil-rubbed bronze or chrome or brushed nickel or satin nickel? Is your head spinning yet? Count on hundreds of questions that you'll need to answer as your project proceeds, or select your architect as your proxy. Just know that your selection of a contractor is the first of many you will make.
by Kelly & Stone Architects
9. Decisions. Where should that outlet be? How high do you want the showerhead? Where do you want the cabinet hardware mounted? Oil-rubbed bronze or chrome or brushed nickel or satin nickel? Is your head spinning yet? Count on hundreds of questions that you'll need to answer as your project proceeds, or select your architect as your proxy. Just know that your selection of a contractor is the first of many you will make.
10. Outliers. At the end of your project, expect one or two punch-list items that will take longer to resolve than anything else. It may be a light fixture that arrives broken or the very last two pieces of tile. The important thing is to get the final details right, even if they take a little longer.
11. A party! Expect that you will want to show off your newly remodeled kitchen, living room or addition. We have had clients throw parties and invite friends, along with us and our trade partners. It’s gratifying for everyone to see a beautifully finished home filled with people enjoying themselves.
Tell us: What have you learned from your latest remodel?
by JR McDowell Homes 11. A party! Expect that you will want to show off your newly remodeled kitchen, living room or addition. We have had clients throw parties and invite friends, along with us and our trade partners. It’s gratifying for everyone to see a beautifully finished home filled with people enjoying themselves.
Tell us: What have you learned from your latest remodel?
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(But the party is awfully fun!)
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Still I must add: If you never worked in construction, had no technical education, no major diy hobbies, are afraid to get dirty, if you think working more than 8 hours a day is too much, if you have enough money to let someone else do it for you, if you're far from creative, and if you're completely sane: Get a contractor to do it for you.
We were living in southern Germany while our 'new' house in northern Germany was being remodelled from top to bottom. It took more than a year and we only visited twice to make some major decisions. The rest of the time my husband kept his nose out of the business while I dealt with our architects through phone calls and mostly emails. Some days I had 15 new emails and was tempted to just shut my notebook and go to bed. lol
Thankfully, DH and I are a perfect match when it comes to taste, so that helped a lot. He just recently said how much he likes all the fixtures and materials I chose throughout the house. That was more gratifying than a bouquet for Valentine's day (I never get one).
Our remodel cost much more than expected (due to unforseeable leaks and frozen pipes and whatnot), but we thoroughly enjoy the outcome and are even glad we made some expensive decisions along the road, like rewiring and having the roof replaced, not only repaired. So in the end, all is well.
Nobody likes excuses or surprises......especially when they effect the checkbook.
In 30+ years in this business, I've only had one client that came in and said "I don't care what it cost or how long it takes, this is what I want when it's finished".
The realities are that very few clients have the big picture in mind when they walk through my door.......they have an idea or dream of what they want and it's my professional responsibility to assist them in getting as close to possible to that end weaving all the factors together ..............otherwise, they don't need me.
Honesty and communication. If I'm doing my job properly, the client is prepared for the realities of the project.......from cost to schedule to surprises to the whole experience (dirt, dust and noise)........and 9 times out of 10, I end up with a successful project, happy client and a referral. What's better........I can look at myself in the mirror.
Consider new appliances or cabinetry that may need to be stored in the garage. Saw centers and lumber storage in the yard. It’s also amazing that the dirt removed for an addition foundation takes up three times its original space after its excavated.
And lastly, just because the project is on the first floor, doesn’t mean the second floor or basement is immune to some construction traffic. We occasionally need to shut off the water in the basement, or open a faucet on the second floor, or find which outlets in the master bedroom are affected by a circuit breaker.
These intrusions into other parts of the house should be minimized – but they will happen.
Great advice on having reserve or additional funds of 10% to 20% over budget, to help with unexpected costs.
1) Most construction crews are really sweet guys (and a rare girl or two), but they're noisy. They whistle, they holler, they bang stuff around, they tell jokes and anecdotes that you'd just as soon not hear...if this sort of racket bothers you (or your pets), definitely be elsewhere.
2) You will reach a day when you will completely despair and wish you had never started the stupid thing. It usually follows that major unexpected budget hit or a squabble with your contractor or your spouse; it will pass, but you will have dark days/nights...maybe several of them.
3) Nature will get you at least once. Wind, rain, blizzard...something is going to get massively delayed or possibly damaged.
4) When it's finally done, you will wish you had done something differently. Maybe several things. Maybe a major thing. But hey, you can always do another project!
If there are any unforseen delays with the remodel, where will the event take place?
Once had a wedding shower planned for the end of the project. The client did not say anything to us about this event taking place at the house and not an outside venue. Plan, plan and then plan and you will have less stress.
Also, there are many contractors that low ball allowances to make the project reflect a lower cost. Be prepared to challenge a $100 lighting allowance BEFORE you sign the contract.
We made the decision to take it down completely and start over with a few exceptions. The house was my grandmother's house, so it had some sentimental value, almost every Sunday, Holiday, etc was spent there for my 44 years, and 59 years for the rest of my family.
Since our initial budget was covered by cash in hand with about $20k as backup, we were not ready to spend the $$$$. We also did not want to get a loan for the project with the failing economy in 2009. We made the decision to pay as we go, even if it took a lot longer.
It is now March 2013 and we are in the home stretch, we have about 3-4 months left to be moved in. We didn't skimp on materials being used, we did 4 sides reclaimed antique brick, wide plank heart pine flooring, all spray foam insulation to fully encapsulate the whole house. We reused all the initial 2' thick granite foundation.
We have had theft on the job site (copper water pipes stripped from house) which forced me to purchase cameras and to run a wireless link between the house and the one we are renting 2 houses away. We have caught 4 people stealing on the property. The local police love us, the cameras make their jobs easy ;-).
Our initial budget of $45k will end up being close to $400k. The original house was 1500 sq ft, we were adding another 1500 sq ft initially. It is now at 6000 sq ft and additional unfinished space, 3000 sq ft in the basement and 1500 sq ft in the attic.
We were not prepared for the worst when we started, but after 4 years, we are still sane. I owe a lot of this to our primary contractor. If I suggested something that was stupid, he would let me know, and not hold back. We are actually good friends after the 4 years and he is working on my mom's house now.
I have owned 4 homes and all have been remodeled, large & small projects, while we've remained living in the home. I am not a novice to remodeling construction, but I am still surprised by the delays that can occur. One kitchen remodel started in August and my deadline to the contractor was to finish before Thanksgiving. He remarked he'd be losing money if he was finished by the first of October. It was finished the week before Thanksgiving! (Except for the punch list, of course!)
Despite all of the above experience, we are preparing to remodel yet again.
Signed, Glutton for Punishment
Never intended to stay this long in one house but I have photos of the original build of our home and every remodel and they came in handy.
On a major 3/4 house remodel with 4 kids in high school, some with allergies, we moved out. Fortunately my mom was thrilled to have us! No matter what we did to control the dust it was everywhere. Box up or tightly cover everything you leave in the house! Once we were back in I had the air ducts cleaned. Mom built all of her houses (her dad was a builder) and she actually went in and mopped the subfloors before the flooring was laid. We did the same. It's amazing how much dust is covered up by the flooring if you don't remove it. (I did have 4 great able bodied kids who helped)
Once you are back in the annoyance will be a blip on the screen of time enjoyed in your new space!
The point here is, really do your homework and ask the right questions, and think reality and set realistic expectations, deadlines, etc. And budget for the unknowns. GC's are not superman, and don't have x-ray vision / can't see behind walls or thru ceiling's and foundations. So, if there's something there and uncovered during construction, that's when you need to stop on consider what actions you're willing to take and their everlasting total impact on visual and use of space etc.
Anyone pursuing a remodel, addition, etc., needs to have at minimum a written contract, as well as scaled drawings and specifications. Nothing verbal holds up in court... documentation does. So, put your ideas on paper, take lots of photos before, during and after. The photos during construciton will also help you with future repairs if needed. They are a great resource of information that explain what's tucked behind that wall, or where that electrical or plumbing line leads to.
Homeowners!!! AVOID micro-managing. Homeowners who feel compelled to give direction to sub trades are in fact taking on liability. The GC and their subs have builders risk / GL insurances for a reason. You do not. If you choose to instruct a sub-contractor to perform scope of work, then you, the homeowner, just became liable. All you have is homeowners insurance, and they wil not cover any construction or liability damages. Avoid this at all cost.
If you hired a GC, then ensure to make your sole responsibility to "observe and report" only. If you can't do it, hire the design proffessional to perform "construction administration"... which is to observe and report back to you (not the GC). Then, when items are in need to be addressed, you, the design professional, and the GC can meet to discuss corrective actions, if any are needed. This will help keep you sane and the project progressing with little to no delay. Yes, you may own the home, and you may feel that you have the right to instruct subs or give direction, but what you are really doing is setting your self up for an epic fail later. Remember, you are not the only one photo documenting the project. The GC and subs (and the inspectors) also have the right to document and take photos of the work being performed... and they are doing it for more reasons than just to post on a website gallery.
Next, AVOID doing the work. You hired the GC to do work. Let them. Your minor savings may cost you BIG TIME later. Yes you may know how to run electrical, plumbing, running low-voltage wiring, or even tiling. That's great. However, there are building codes (IRC codes / NEC / TCNA guideliines for installing tile, etc.) that must be adhered to at ALL times. For example, if you decide to run low-voltage wires yourself in lieu of hiring an A/V installer to pre-wire for sound and security, and you bore holes thru wood memebers and get red-tagged on an inspection because they found that you bored thru or notched an area that impacts the integrity of the structure, then you just became liable, not the GC. It's best to work with and thru your GC.
Beware of the contractor that does not provide you with scaled floorplans. If for nothing else, these drawings provide a starting point for a conversation about use of space and traffic flow. Professionals use 3D software to show clients what the room will look like. They usually come really close!
If you aren't working with an interior designer, but renovating your kitchen or bathroom, you can have floor plans drawn to scale by kitchen or bathroom companies. You (may) pay, but it will be a worthwile investment.
Think twice before simply working on a "vision". What you envision and the actual end result might be miles apart. It would be a shame to spend a small fortune only to end up dissappointed in the final results.
At the end of the day it was all about doing our homework as homeowners. We had to be actively involved, no matter how many professionals we had as part of the project. We were the only ones who would be sensitive to our budget and aesthetics. Long term, this has served us very well.
Oh, one last thing......I interview contractors. I think this must be unusual, but I was a Human Resource pro for to long not to do that. The contractor I work with is awesome, he is clean, tidy and respectful. He is a wealth of knowledge about products and offers tons of advice and assistance. He has never once left a wrapper or his tools in disarray. We have used him on many projects over the past 8 years.
Next week we move into our completely remodeled home. It has taken 18 months and, yes, more $$ than we had expected or hoped. But we are thrilled and so happy we undertook this project after years of deliberating whether we should remodel or just move.
A few more considerations:
I agree with @bainmrb: hiring the best contractor in your area is essential to your happiness and satisfaction. And, hire a GC who has done significant work in your area. Their knowledge of building codes and relationships with sub-contractors and inspectors makes a difference. A busy, in-demand GC already has many subs who work with him / her regularly and eagerly. They work well together and are more available to that GC because they know they'll get more work through him / her. And, the subs are more likely to work consistently to the standard set by the GC. (Our GC, Pettigrew Construction, is an excellent example.)
Consult with architects or designers on big-investment projects. We know what we like in design, but lack the skill and confidence to get there by ourselves. I credit the architect we worked with, the kitchen designer, and garden designer with helping us realize our vision by creating build-able plans and helping us select materials. (Our team: Jeannette Architects, The Kitchen Consultant, and The Plant Nerd)
Select professionals with whom you are comfortable and who will work with you in the way that you prefer. We wanted to be involved in our project and chose to work with professionals who welcomed that collaboration.
Finally, go into it with a spirit of adventure, because surely it will be a voyage of discovery!
Thank you. I have book marked this and am ready to pass it on.
We hired HW General Contracting, in Southern California, to pour 2 cement slabs a few years ago. They presented the best bid, but also treated us like important clients, even though it was a small job. They just finished tearing out and installing shower for us in a 35 year old house. Again, their prices beat the tar out of other bids, they were on time and did a magnificent job. They also encountered a few minor "surprises" upon the tear out, and didn't ding us extra $$ to address some of the items.
If this sounds like a plug for them...IT IS! Offering generalized comments on what to look for in choosing a general contractor is fine, but quite frankly, I can find this same info anywhere on the Internet. What we regular, normal, budget-tight homeowners are looking for are NAMES! Sure, it's no guarantee, and homework on background, licenses, and recommendations should be persued (common sense), but actual companies and their locations would GREATLY assist in leading us to a real SOLUTION in finding a good contractor. Attached is a pic of the old and a pic of the new.
For our whole house remodel we ARE our own contractors, architects, interior designers and workers. I had finished off 3 basements and redone 3-4 bathrooms in my life previous to this, so I wasn't a complete newbie to remodeling. However this project was on a scale far greater than I had ever tackled involving complete redo's of the exterior and interior of the house. What was interesting was that we actually tried to get architect help in the beginning and could not - the architects would not take our small Ranch home remodel on. Not enough money in it for them we were told for such a small house (2800 sq ft). So we just winged it and bought a lot of books and looked at a LOT of Houzz photos to figure out what we wanted, what was possible and what we could afford.
We have strung the remodel out over time and are currently in year three. We have done 80% of the work ourselves bringing in contractors for specialty jobs such as rock work, fireplace installs, gas line installs, etc.
We gave up on trying to control #1 and we just dust a lot. We have had our share of #5's and wondered how that "issue" escaped inspection back in the 70's when the house was built. #9 has been the biggest challenge as we try to predict the future and know where to put outlets, plumbing, etc. One thing that has been a big advantage of doing it ourselves is that we take extra time to put in more outlets, Cable drops and Ethernet drops than we could have afforded to pay someone to do.
I especially resonate with rinqreation's last comment. If you are afraid of having two jobs (9-5 at the office and then 6-10 at home remodeling plus weekends), afraid of getting really, really dirty or have no construction sense at all then you should hire it out.
@ddelora, I think houzz.com is a tremendous resource for locating remodeling professionals in your area. The site allows you to search by metro area and type of professional. The companies with reviews tend to land near the top of the search results, so you can see not just photos, but find out how the company's clients feel about the work they do. That's a good first step in making a short list of contractors to interview. I covered the topic of contractor selection on our company blog, which might be of help to you: http://www.ventanabuilds.com/blog/2011/07/20/selecting-a-contractor-part-1/
I say yes to finding a contractor you like. For weeks at a time it's just me and The Guy. Hard to put up with that when you don't like The Guy. Mine is a great combo of former framer, enjoys trim work and likes problem solving. I got lucky.
#1 Dust (and fumes)
Negative Air
The big difference when keeping dust under control is adding negative air to the work area.
It goes on first before work starts and stays on all day long. For some projects it may be left on for projects like a stain and lacquer job it can keep the fumes from traveling out of the work area.
It cleans the air for the workers and even more importantly it pulls air from non work areas into the work area so the dust is pulled into the work area and moved outside.
The fans cone in different styles and shapes. They can be rented from box stores and other rental places.
The plastic tube for moving the dust in can be rented or purchased in reusable or disposable.
It may be hard to believe such a simple addition could make such a big difference. Seeing it once will make you and the client a believer.
Ram Board
I use a lot of Ram board , But beware if you think heavy or sharped edges could be dropped use hard board.
Ram board on carpet will tear in a shatter pattern when tools and materials are dropped.
This is really not a big problem. Having a roll of duct tape handy is a quick lasting fix.
I put down plastic before The Ram Board in work areas where this is a concern and high traffic areas. For heavier work areas I always use 1/8" hardboard.
Keeping the walls clean
I am a big believer of putting light plastic on walls not being worked on. It keeps the walls cleaner and cuts cleaning later.
Vents and Return Air
Covering the vents and return air is missed and a biggie.
I cover return air venting with doubled air filer that I cut to fit, the outer layer is replaced as needed.
I cover supply venting if it is coming on during the job or plastic and tape if it is not in use.
I also but in a mesh material to keep debris from falling down into the vents.
Access
I use a combination of zipper doors , plastic flaps, drops and carpet protecting self stick easy remove plastic depending on traffic, materials and debris going through the opening.
I use different thicknesses of plastic depending on the amount of time and wear and tear the access will be used.
On some projects the opening may move and be relocated as progress and need changes.
Foot wear and protection
I may have to walk through snow to get to the house on those days the guys have second pair of shoes. This is not always an issue at the rough demo stages as it is at finish.
1. A project needs daily supervision by the owner. Construction workers mean well, but they are like 5th graders. They, along with the construction supervisor, need at least daily supervision. Otherwise you won't get what you want.
2. Your job is not the only job your contractor has. He will on occasion pull all the workers from your job site for his other projects. Put in your contract that 1 or 2 workers will be at your project 8 hours a day, every day, with a financial penalty for non-compliance. Sound extreme? You may have moved out of your home into a rental. If the workers don't show up, you'll spend an extra month or two on that rental that could have been used on a change order.
Having a good relationship with suppliers is key knowing who is delivering and getting materials when promised
Something's are foreseeable others are hard to plan for.
It may be as simple as ordered wrong, arrivers damaged or fill in the blank________.
We are dealing with a supply chain that just spent a few years cutting back.
Plan on longer lead times with construction getting busier until production catches up and supply houses are not under stocked and manned.
Don't get a false since things just appear and happen like on reality shows.
Some projects you are asking for trouble without product in hand.
Even if it was in stock last week is no guaranty for this week.
It helps reading this, as I'm feeling quite flat, and a little disheartened at present...I envisioned doing so much more with the funds borrowed...I've been vigilant -and before I made any purchase I would double check the budget.... Still with all that, I'm not going to have enough to paint....That will have to be done in stages now.
Anyhow, I'm glad I could post this, I needed a rant....And I don't feel so alone....It just goes to show doesn't matter how much I tried to get things just right....I made mistakes....and now it's accepting what's done and working with what I do have...
I swore the previous renovation I did; would be the last - Not so...here I go again...It does take a lot of time, resources, energy embarking on a renovation...I'm much older these days, so it's limited on what I can do myself to save costs....Years ago I was much more able to tackle a lot the renovation myself.....Thanks Houzz I did spend a lot of time here looking at pictures and reading articles, it's a been a major inspiration in tackling the renovation.
1) Prepare for the DUST. It never occurred to me to close the AC vents, and part of the remodel was refinishing about 1,200 square feet of hardwood floors. OOF! Heed the sage words of this article - close the vents, seal off areas that are not part of the remodel...and accept that in spite of these preparations, you'll still end up with some dust in places you don't want or expect it.
2) RE: finding a contractor - ask your insurance company! Liberty Mutual offered to let me use my own contractors, but a) I had none and b) I figure someone recommended by them is someone they trust to do the work well, and cost-effectively. So I asked them to recommend someone who works in my area, and I ended up with a great contractor. He charges 20% off the top above the cost of materials and labor by the subs - and there's no negotiation on that point. But I learned in the course of my project that he earns every penny. He saved me time, money and more than one headache. I cannot IMAGINE how insane it would've been to coordinate all the various aspects of my project by myself. More importantly, there was more than one occasion where I was un-pleased with some aspect of the work done by subs. One call to the GC and the problems were addressed.
I have often heard about projects where people save money by acting as the GC on their project - HA! Think SERIOUSLY about how much your time is worth, and how much time you actually have, before you decide to act as your own GC. A really good GC can save you money, it's true, as well as time and headaches.
Also, I am a woman and agree with other women on this site. You will be given excuses and you will be told that things that you want aren't possible. Every time I am told that, I go on-line and I find the solution or the product that does what I want. You can say that with so much out there, a person can't know everything available but it is amazing (I even find some humor in it now) what you will be told because it may take more time (which I am paying for) or because it takes a little more skill set. You would think that after being on my job for any length of time and knowing that I am going to check out everything I am told, they would just cut the crap--but amazingly, they don't. I have gotten to the point that I have sourced my own products and I have told them that if they won't or can't do what I want that I will find someone who can. Sad, but true. I don't know how anyone can expect a quality job without overseeing it. Moving out of my home and going on automatic pilot, leaving minor/major decisions to others, and expecting a quality job would be like rolling the dice in Vegas to me. When they are all gone and you have paid the money, they are not the ones living in your house-you are. I don't know about you, but money is too hard to come by for me to leave things to chance and perhaps have to correct work I have already paid for once. My biggest caveat after having remodeled about 75% of my house, is that you do your best to find a quality contractor, you do the best that you possibly can to make sure that your contract spells everything out (they will whip the contract out on you and try to say something is not in there), you make sure that you can oversee the job, if something happens that would be costly to correct but you can live with it--you get a deduction that you and the contractor can agree upon from your contract, and you must be willing to be tough and negotiate these things. Remodeling is not for the faint of heart--you WILL be taken advantage of if you are not savvy. Remember, they do this for a living. Many times they have honed their objections to work that is in any way out of the ordinary to a fine art. Oh, the internet is a wonderful thing!
As a design professional, it is very difficult working on a project where the homeowner wants to be the center of communication or where the contractor is not interested in communication with the designer. There is often a lot of contention between the designer and contractor and this is NOT good for the overall project - especially the budget!!!
I was just hired to work on a project in which I will take the project into the design schematics and then help the homeowner select the contractor. They decided to do this because they want to make sure that we will work together well. This is the first time I've worked in this format and I have to say, I'm excited to see how it turns out!
I've reconstructed several homes in the last few years, the very last one was the one where I live now, and for some reasons I had to live in the flat during the reconstruction. The worse thing for me was the smell.... The noise stops when the guys go home in the evening, you can clean up a little space, close your eyes and don't see all the stuff you have, but you can't close your nose so that you don't feel the smell... Wet walls, old paintings, old plumbing, and not to speak about when they removed the toilet!
Next time I'll move out (and do everything possible to be able)!
A good environmental inspector who can detect problems, (before demolition), with poorly insulated walls, termite damage, or mold growth is a minor investment that is well worth it. Having a good plan from a designer or architect gives you the specifications needed to get solid estimates from contractors before you start your project.
How about a "Realistic Expectations" reality show for HGTV or Discovery!
It always costs more
It always takes longer
It's always more difficult
That often has to do with homeowners changing their minds and adding more work to the projects.
Often the project opens the clients eyes to the other possibilities because they like what they see and decide to do more.
80% of the remodels get added to in scope.
The next biggest is the unknown.
Sure I know what am suppose to find behind the drywall.
Its what you find that you were not suppose to see that cost more.
Damage, bad or incorrect framing, wiring or plumbing .
As a professional our only option is to correct it Its for your safety first and foremost.
When building a new home or kitchen remodel we have a budget that has been gone over by both the client and myself. Appliances, looked at listed and priced out an allowance set in stone, till they change their mind.
On bigger projects where more time and work is involved I have seen the choice of appliance can change drastically.
Once the client picked a new on the market must have cooktop the blew the whole appliance budget.
Straight forward jobs like Decks, Garages, Porch covers rarely go over budget as is the case for many kitchen and bath remodels where the sizes and locations stay the same.
See waht I mean?
This is by far one of the better articles.
The dialog, thoughts and venting that has followed along with your article is invaluable.
(Often the project opens the clients eyes to the other possibilities because they like what they see and decide to do more.
80% of the remodels get added to in scope.)
This happens a lot
I walk into your home to bid remodeling the bathrooms and the kitchen follows.
I did a emergency roof repair on a street I had built three homes from ground up.
I told the client winter is not the best time to reroof.
The following spring I went out to bid the roof and was asked was it possible to give a bid for painting and AC as well.
Much of the wood was beyond paint so I was asked to bid the siding and I did.
The bids was accepted and work started.
After the old siding was removed and new siding was going up The client decided he wanted to go with higher efficiency windows and doors to replace the ten year old builders grade ones.
Later one day when I was working outside he ask to replace the door that led to the garage because he could feel and hear the wind going through.
I said let me look at it first.
I caulked, foamed and re-trimmed the garage side of the door, adjusted the door bottom and it was as good as new.
Many things are less costly if the contractor is already on the project.
PS The windows, doors eco cooling roof shingles , solar roof vents house wrap and caulking made the house so comfortable the AC was not needed.
Right
You think you need five sawsall blades for remodeling you buy ten.
You see poison Ivy bidding the deck you add a disposable painters suit to the bid.
Valves, and other items where wear is not visible sure, sanding issues 50/50 we are back to experience. My favorite painter first painted for me in 1993-94
In 35 years, we have never hired subcontractors that were "like 5th graders". Granted we worked in small towns and knew who to hire that was efficient, professional and trustworthy.
They worked unsupervised by me or the homeowner and I could pay my regular subs without going out to inspect. They were that good.
I would suggest people spend a lot of time on references for your contractor. If you are the contractor, that means you must make a lot of phone calls to check out all the subs. Another point is the subs owe their loyalty to the general contractors since they are their source of year in and year out business. So, sometimes, u-build-it's have to wait a day or two but the good subs will get there as fast as they can.
Material procurement is an art. It takes a lot of experience to stage the materials and fixtures so no one is waiting including the homeowner.
While things happen beyond anyone's control, if your contractor is moving heaven and earth to get it done, give him a break.
Canty Construction
Both of the issues that I brought up in my earlier comment were about not getting what was in my contract--not additions or changes. I do a lot of research and I am trying to contract up front for what I want. And while I am at it here--many of you GC's need to learn how to write a change order! The last time there was an unexpected issue on my remodel, the GC penciled his additional charges on a piece of wood! If you have customers making constant changes, start hitting them with change orders complete with additional costs for them to sign off on and it will probably nip the changes/additions in the bud. I'd love to have Mike Holmes listen to some of the stuff that I have been told--I could fill up a whole time slot!
I cannot imagine charging a customer for a sub contractor error. Why did you accept that?
I cannot imagine one of my subs turning in anything like that.
The one place you need to expect to pay is with faulty owner supplied fixtures etc.
It is not the plumbers fault that the Home Depot supplied faucet has a non ending leak. Subs make money on their supplied parts to cover this type of thing. They cannot stop,pull the defective faucet, send a runner to HD, exchange the faucet at the store, and replace the HD faucet for nothing. You have to expect to pay.
Once i explained this to our customers they were happy to agree to not supplying their materials. We only allowed decorative items to be customer supplied. All 'hard items' (something completely attached to the house by us or our contractors) were all General Contractor supplied and our responsibility that they function as they should.
Canty Construction
On my current job, before I hired the GC and while we were contracting, I informed him that I had an issue with a sliding door leaking. He said that his people would take a look at it as he was confident they could solve the problem without getting a new door. My husband and I were more than fine with getting a new door, if necessary. First rain after demo, concrete is wet around the door on a floor that I had contracted to have engineered hardwood laid. I informed the GC immediately, they played around with it, door was possibly installed wrong to begin with, and he delayed getting me the order book for a new door. I was not supplying the door myself--I just want to replace items with quality pieces. Door was ordered through him and he was trying to say that I was holding things up--EVEN though we had informed him that we had an issue up front and that if it was not resolved, we wanted to get a new door and pay for the additional work. When the door came, the new door leaked because the workers did not read the instructions and properly caulk the bottom edges. Now it was wet and had to dry out to be redone properly and the supplier had to supply some new felt and weatherstripping. This was not my fault! When the GC gave me a price for the door and the labor, he said--$1672.00 for the door and $350 for installation. That was fine with me. When mistakes were made and the supplier had to come out and supply new parts and the work had to be redone correctly, the GC then told me that he needed $1672 for the door, $350 installation and $200 to paint it. I told him that he never told me that the painting would be an extra charge. I paid it but isn't it possible that I paid for the extra parts and the additional labor by him "manufacturing" a painting charge? Lesson learned. Now anything that comes up unexpected, I will get them to put the change order IN WRITING and that is the price I will pay. This is a good example of the point that I am trying to make with people about remodeling. Get everything in writing--any changes that need to be made and what the charge will be. I am trying to give others the benefit of all my experience because as I said, the contractor might have been in business for years and they know how to recoup the costs of their mistakes. They have had many opportunities to hone their skills in this area. You must be a savvy customer and try to protect yourself.
My husband and I have always laughed about how doctors and lawyers and other professionals can keep you waiting or not promptly return your calls and yet, a mechanic gets such grief from the same people if he discovers another issue and it's going to cost more and heaven help, the car is going to take more time to repair! Boy, can they get on their emotional high horse then!And yet, a mechanic cannot fully know what he is going to find until he tears down that motor. Now the shoes in the other foot. Where did their patience and tolerance go? What happened to "treat others how you want to be treated"? Do these people try to treat us as if we could be their mothers or sisters or wives? I'm speaking to all who provide a service.
So, I presonally thank you for sharing all you have learned.It's helped me a lot. Maybe you shojuld put out a book called, Remodeling Your House for Dummies! I bet you'd make a million, judging from the response here.
I do not know the average for a remodel but the average new home has two million components in it and something will go wrong, it’s the law of averages.
You WILL be taken advantage of if you are not savvy. (I hope and believe that is the exception)
As a contractor my pricing varies to some extent on the client. You know some will need daily updates, other weekly works. Time is money!
I also know of contractors who gouge whenever they can, they treat every client as a one timer.
Again they are the exception but they exist.
By all means educate yourself and be savvy.
Even hire a third party inspector for quality if the scope is such it is warranted.
I think I have been asked three times by clients about third party inspectors.
Twice on Spec homes and once on a contract pre sold in twenty years.
I have encouraged them to do so if it gives them piece of mind.
Define what quality you desire in the beginning, because the building inspector cannot inspect for quality.
A 10’ wall could be leaning 1 5/8” out of plumb and still meet the building codes requirement.
I know no one personally who would do that kind of work but when I use to trim for numerous contractors I did come across really bad framing. By the time the trimmer is onsite drywall is done and framers are long gone.
I chose as a trim carpenter to never trim for three builders who accepted that level of work again. I did not want my name associated with their houses.
They are usually the ones who are first to disappear when the economy drops.
Unfortunately when the economy drops you get a few people saying they can do things they do not do well just to have a job.
There is always a first time to do something,
The first stairways I did I was painfully slow but the quality of the workmanship was as good as any on the project.
The stairways were a set price so I paid for the learning curve so to speak.
I did one houses the first day and the top guys were doing five houses a day.
The next day I did two and a half and the third day I did three plus the half from the day before.
I also knew I would probably never be a five house a day guy.
I still 25 years later have all my fingers and many of the fastest on that project were missing a part of one finger or more.
I came into one house and found the children dancing inside the cabinets that had been painted the day before. The parents were completely oblivious. Same dad rode a 2 y.o around on his shoulders as the kid stuck a chocolate cupcake to the newly painted walls.
We did not clean up either area. They paid to have the inside of the cabinets redone and left the chocolate on the walls. So did we. The wife broke into the house at night and redid the wall paper. :-O
Not all PIA's were about kids. Some customers are extremely needy and need lots of hand holding. Some have to be taken shopping multiple times to pick out lights and flooring because they can't make a decision.
We have to live with a customer most of a year but we do not have to marry them.
Gail
Canty Custom Construction
Another section could be called "Moving Parts". Construction is typically very logical. Framing before plumbers/electricians. Insulation before drywall, which is before paint. If you follow the logical sequence it goes smoothly...BUT there is always the curve ball that tries to hold the whole show! Good contractors usually spot them early and deal with them effectively.
Next article should be on contracts and pricing..."How does the money work?!"
I am surprised at the things obviously done after inspection , not to code on million dollar+ homes built during the down turn.
Where did these builder come from?
If I asked my electrician to leave wires (hot) in the ceiling hanging loose he tell me to quit smoking crack.
I have never been surprised by what a home owner/ handyman will do.
A neighbor called knowing I built several homes in the subdivision.
Her husband and a handy dandy friend had removed the header to make room for a sliding glass door. She was 99% sure it needed to be there but Handy D assured her it was not necessary, well he tried to.
This same handy man did his own basement finish. The electrician told me the walls were falling off the ceiling as he tried to drill holes to run wire.
If a designer is out of the question, plan Plan PLAN! Knowing the details about what you want ahead of time will minimize a lot of the homeowner complaints that good contractors talk about. The time to clip magazines and obsess over home improvement shows and figure out if the couch will fit is before the remodel begins, not during. Don't get in their way, but do review ALL their work or have an architect do it for you.
for an unfilled nail hole because of our rep for exactness.
Jinajae, i guess we should be getting fees for these services as we have always done as you stated with our customers making their decision lighter and more managable for them. Also less headache for me.
CCC
Of course, i about fainted with the inspection.
Because it was the first home of its kind built in the city of Denver I had private inspections on all structural aspects. Many days included daily inspections
Having designers and architects opens windows to different ideas.
That said one person has to have finial say. That is the person who holds the labiality.
I have built and remolded a number of projects for engineers and architects, mostly their personal homes.
I know I have learned from them and would like to think they feel the same.
Sometimes it is not a good fit , no fault to either party.
@gcanty I had an engineer who I built two homes for he pull permits and he carried the liability.
He set the stakes for the set back lines and took off for Europe.
I laid out the house with in the set back boundaries and proceeded.
I am pretty sure he knew the boundary was in the easement by 60'.
Bad verbiage by the building department they lost.
The permits zoning page said Front 100' side 40' and back 25'
So the house had roads on two sides two so it had two frontages.
At the hearing I was told they meant frontage when they put front on the zoning permit
We were done with the shell on a 8,500 sq. ft. home by then. Harder to make you move things is setbacks that property lines issues.
Please ask for a list of references from your potential contractor and then call every single one of them. Even happy customers may tell of a few pitfalls you should look out for.
It is much easier in a small area because tales live on. Since there is less choice in who you hire and who you choose to work for, it is imperative you keep your reputation in good stead.
All of the research you do ahead of time will be worth every cent. a biggie is Can your contractor handle his money?
Some just cannot understand the draw money is not 'all his'. Check to see if he pays his subs in a timely manner. Request a list of subcontractors that will be working on your job. Call them, too and see what they think about working for this general contractor. Ask specifically how they are paid. At the end of the job, if they have not been paid, they can put a lien on your property even though you have supplied the monies to the general to pay them already.
Dot i's and cross t's
I had no idea what I was doing when we bought a 1935 cabin that had two non permitted additions from the family of the hoarder who lived here. I had 6 years of architecture experience in school but my career was an advertising exec at a movie studio previously.
Hammer? Huh...um, I have one. Drill? Yeah, I bought a 18 volt as a glorified screwdriver. I owned nothing else tool wise other than a few odd and ends.
I'm almost three years into this and it's my therapy. It's my enjoyment. I know much more about myself because of this than if I bought turnkey house. It did not make issues with my wife. It brought us together more. I went from rookie to what many pros call "dude, you should do this professionally." At 47, no thanks but I love it. Dust? check. Surprises? check. Money issues? Ya think? check!
Still, one of the best situations that I have had in my life. I understand not all can DO the work but even if you aren't, appreciate the experience (as long as it does not end up on Holmes on Holmes). :-D
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Chris
I guess we lucked into really wonderful contractors both times. They were experts at what they did, considerate of our family, busted their bottoms to make sure they didn't make messes, pet the dogs when need be, pulled the girls legs once in a while, and did awesome work.
The only incident we had was they accidentally shattered our beautiful hand made cut glass front door when they were bringing in the new kitchen island. But other than living with a big old ugly sheet of plywood on the door for a month, it was no biggy. It got fixed. I thought about painting a smiley face on the plywood oval, but you know those darn HOAs.....
I am embarrassed to say, both contractors made it so easy, it was actually fun. We had nothing to complain about., and I read other people's remodelling horror stories with a "there but for the grace of God" sigh of relief.
DO NOT expect things to be like the TV shows on HGTV. Their budgets are unrealistic as are the time frames and expected added value. They are typical reality TV - not real. The best way to get good advice and a realistic budget is to hire a trusted experienced contractor. They understand the process and it is in the best interest of all concerned to be upfront with costs and expectations
Western States, Santa Ana, CA – (714) 285-0111
Branch Designs, Orange, CA – (714) 322-9157
ROOMSCAPES, INC., Laguna Niguel, CA – (949) 448-9627 http://www.roomscapes.net
And why would I do all of this first? Because I can't tell you how many times I needed to be here but also needed a quick escape. I needed order and a clean place that was nice to sit in and look at. To be able to go relax or have my dinner in a beautiful outdoor setting, exhausted after a long messy day inside, would have been so wonderful. To see fresh flowers and nicely lined beds and drinking my coffee out there in the mornings, oh, I would have loved that. Or to watch the sun set in all it's glory! The beauty of it all would have given me hope! No matter how dusty or loud it was getting inside, to know I could step over a threshold and be in another world instantly would have done a world for my nerves.
Now, I live in Texas. It gets really hot here. That's why we have ceiling fans hung outdoors. As far as you folks that have heavy snow, those that have real winters, I'd invest in those propane heaters. I'd consider that fireplace too. If you are able to have one, make it gas and use gas logs. They give off incredible heat. My son in law has a gas fireplace inside but didn't make the fireplace on one of his patios gas. I think he just didn't see the need. Even though they live in Austin, Texas area, it was cold. We ended up going inside. You couldn't really get warm by the fire. Gas logs (ceramic) get so hot you have to turn them down. If you insist on real logs, you can go a step further and have these vents made into the front of the fireplace that have blower motors. The vents are in the brick and barely noticeable. They really distribute the heat from the burning logs a lot better than the logs do on their own.
Anyway, that's what I'd do if I ruled the world! Have an outdoor oasis and then take my time knocking out the whole house!
Years ago, there was a TV version of Cinderella. A new song was introduced. The lyrics began, "In my own little corner in my own little room, I can be anything that I want to be." That song has stuck with me, especially through the years of raising ten kids! Find that corner in the chaos of raising kids or living with sheetrock dust everywhere! As women, we know better than anyone how to improvise.
Now be prepared to move your special space. You might have to give up that corner to the contractors. That's why I say keep it small. Make it easy to relocate. So, if I'm in trouble and I'm sent to timeout....oh, hurt me again!
The contractor is not doing you a favor.
I walked a job today.
His insurance is void if a needed permit is not pulled.
The plumber did everything to code 110%, but the electrician did 80%/90% he did what was easy for him, not what was best for the homeowner or the house and other trades.
A stop work order is the result.
Sorry to hear about your problems with your contractor.
Did your contract not list product and materials to be used ?
I always give a choice of two to three windows, sometimes even different brands at different price levels.
Unless the client already has their mind made up as to the window choice.
Schedules can go out the window with changes of scope of work.
Probably not the case at your house.
I have a project going currently I am waiting for the plans they are in the third plan review because the client change the design so much.
Talk about a scheduling nightmare dealing with redrawing the plans two times for a 3,550 sq. ft. remodel.
1) Lower your expectations.
2) There will be dust. There will be noise. It will cost more and more and more. It will take MUCH longer than he says.
3) Hire a designer. Make as many decisions up front as you can and then trust me to do the little stuff (where does the outlet go yadda yadda).
4) Don't work from home. Spend weekends away or at family's house. It will drive you crazy.
5) Check everything once a day ONLY (so you don't go bonkers) and make a list. Address it once a day with the GC directly (not his workers) and do it in writing if you can so there's no oh yeah woops I forgot you mentioned that...
6) Don't chat and make small talk with workers and boss. Be friendly before they start work with a cup of coffee or after they're done. While they're working you're distracting them.
Pretty good advice above, but surprised there's no mention of advising the client to hire a designer. Contractors make this mistake - and honestly all the talk about not wanting to interfere with giving advice or accelerating their decision making process - why NOT advise them to have a designer?
Residential architects work with 5-10 general contractors in their lifetime
Residential interior designers work closely with 2-5 general contractors in their lifetime
Your neighbours/friends have worked with 1-2 contractors in their lifetime
Paint contractors work with 10-15 general contractors (& carpenters) every year, or 75+ in their lifetime.
Nobody in the entire construction industry gets around like a successful paint contractor and if you've found one that you or your friends love, then there is your crystal ball. Ask them, they'll tell you exactly who to hire/consider based on your budget and scope.
I speak from direct experience in a very rich real-estate market. I regularly tell my clients to call me first. I've got a rolodex full of:
1) Young carpenters who are talented and looking to grow their business and will give you more attention then their own wives and will come in at a very good (not cheap) budget. They're great for say deck remodels, interior finishing or maybe a bathroom reno
2) Lone-wolf master carpenters who can do anything and everything, have zero overhead, maybe close to retirement, best suited for complicated repairs, a vacation property build/reno or maybe utilized as a grade 'A' handyman when needed
3) Small team (2-3 carpenters) general contractors that balance no more than 1-2 projects at a time, run a lean operation (little overhead) and are thus perfect for renovations of all sizes - not new builds
4) Medium team (4-8 carpenters) general contractors that balance 3-5 live projects, that can easily and expertly undertake major renovations and custom home builds
5) Large team (8+ carpenters) general contractors that primarily build custom homes, work closely with architects, are heavily experienced working with different architectural styles, newly released products and complicated engineering.
....and then within each of these types is a subset of "cheap-and-dirty", "good value", and "expensive but perfect"
There is no such thing as a bad contractor, just a badly placed contractor. Do you have the right one placed??
Arapahoe County four weeks for a simple basement finish permit and if you call for inspection too soon after permit is issued they are all pissed off.
Hard to give a lot of meaningful advice with such a wide difference between city's.
In metro Denver a license may or may not be needed, a test may or may not be given to issue a license and in Colorado if someone tells you they are a state licensed GC they are smoking something as the state does not have a license for GCs only plumbers and electricians .
Not getting a permit puts all the labiality on the home owner.
Let me say again Not getting a permit puts all the labiality on the home owner.
If you know the codes and what needs to be done by all means be the contractor. I am all for qualified people doing it the DIY way.
I even give advice to DIYers on how to save money and time doing it right.
I am in the middle of a 1800s home remodel where the budget is tripling to meet code. If it was bid to meet code in the first place at least the scope and cost would not be such a surprise.
It really chaps my @$# when subs tell clients its all good and they darn well know it is not.
Nothing done before I took over would have passed inspection or code and now is costing more.
Do it right the first time!!!!!!!
In my experience home owners usually pay far more than the 20% I charge just in the pricing they get as a one time client from subs. Take into account the better pricing on materials and labor I get , experience in scheduling, buying and the value of your time and you are money ahead hiring a contractor.
I am knee deep redoing work on a 1800s home.
The living room floor has been worked on at least three times judging by the different materials and type of nails I have found.
The newest work was not done by a professional and is in need of being redone years before it should have to be done.
With my current contractor (master bathroom remodel $40k), we have had nothing but problems with every aspect of the job. In every case, the mistake was caught by my husband and I either during or after the installations. Contractor never present at job site My contractor has been generally a "rubber stamp" since he failed to prevent a single major problem/incident from happening and was a total pain to work with. He constantly blamed others, including us ("you were at home, why didn't you notice" or "you made him nervous"). Terrible experience and the contractor gave us a FALSE sense of security 100% of the time.
As for dust mitigation, I wish in advance I had covered all of my expensive electronics ($20k present value). The dust from this project has probably taken years off the life of my entire household of electronics and perhaps even my fridge (Viking $8k). When dust mitigation was used, everything still got covered from the entire house vibrations. My best advice for anyone - put electronic devices in boxes, seal them, and wait to use them after the remodel is complete!!!! Dust mitigation is simply providing a false sense of security to the home owner, IMHO.
Both pictures are of first time projects.
The home theater client is now talking about doing the wine cellar.
The concrete countertop client has asked me to bid installing a second and third level deck and an addition and whole house renovation on a third project.
I am also bidding tow jobs currently that are direct result of a job recently finished one block away.
I am bidding into next year mostly repeat and referrals.
No contractor or job is perfect, Even some clients are less than perfect , I manage to avoid most of them or they me..
The last perfect carpenter was nailed to a cross and I am not a candidate.
As for the dust mitigation BS There is a difference #1 if they did not set up negative air and maintain it so it was working properly you just got a dust job.....
I know of few contractors who go through the trouble..... because it costs money and take time.
Most clients do not want to pay for it. Mostly because it is not presented properly.
One to two rolls stick on plastic $ 45.00 ea.
One roll of heavy duty plastic $100.00
Set of hardware to keep the plastic in place $150.00 per set.(reusable) Like Third Hand and ZipWall.
Some jobs take three to four sets.
Roll of painters plastic to cover all walls not being demoed $40.00.
Three- four different types of tape $75.00
Floor protection, Plastic, Paper, heavy duty card board like Rino board and 1/8" hard board,1/2" plywood. Every job takes a different mix of some jobs take all listed.
Negative air machine I own three.
I cover all vents with plastic and cardboard if they blow into the room and cover return air vents with two layers of filters. The outer one gets changed as needed.
I charge for this or I do not take the job period.
The home theater was dropped clothed or flooring stick on plastic from front door to work area . Over the plastic was Rino board to the enclosed work area from that point on the carpet was covered with stick on plastic, heavy duty plastic, hard board with seams duct taped.
Zipper door to staging area and zipper door to work area.
It is possible to make a major difference in dust if done right.
Because the house was so shabby, anything we did to it was an improvement. We are still working on it. Most rooms have been updated at least twice. Last year we changed the tile in the shower and actually had someone else do it. What a treat!
It's both rewarding and frustrating. All of the points mentioned are valid. Expect the unexpected. I changed my mind MANY times during each project. We found many unexpected problems during each project. I waited years for things to get finished.
On the plus side, I have a husband who can do almost anything. He is an incredible carpenter, a decent electrician, and a reluctant plumber. Our house is truly a home and every room, floor, window, light fixture, and door has a story.
We are now working on getting heat and air to our bedroom (old house, radiators which are incredible BTW). And a bathroom up there too! We are contracting out the plumbing and ductwork which leaves us with drywalling and installing fixtures, toilet, etc. There will be cutting into two floors to bring ductwork upstairs. I am not looking forward to the mess.
Would I do it again? I honestly don't know.